Bitwig VS Ableton

[SmajjL]

I have sold Live before and i'm keeping it around this time mostly for the tempo-matching, but i don't even think i need the suite version for that
Looks like stuff happeing over at REAPER-land can help with that topic also and i would loOoOove to get my ass to Mars (Linux) 100%
To be fair, i have not utilized all Live's capabilities ins & outs like the back of my hand, it is Live! not *poop*
I have spoken
Bitwig and my brain is just faster and fun to be creative with, i could get used to other ways i guess, i just have not, competition is good so, gogo! all DAWs, bring it!

[machinesworking]

Maybe I'm stupid, but Live is starting to bore me.... So I renewed my Bitwig license for over 300 credits....
Lemme see were this leads me. Gonna have a lot of questions, maybe.... It's been a while

I feel you on this one. There are numerous reasons why I should be using Live over Bitwig: collaboration, M4L SysEx plug in and the hundreds of plug ins for M4L, MIDI capture, MIDI comping, tempo matching, video hosting. I still end up using Bitwig, I've always loved Lives' Session View, time stretching, live performance workflow, but the basics of a DAW have always seemed like they almost hate them. So no real tools to slice and dice MIDI and audio, you still can't cut a MIDI note since there isn't any slice tool, and the command really only works on audio in the Arrangement. What kills my enthusiasm there is you can slice MIDI in the Arrangement, by cutting a clip in half, which makes the fact you can't just select a single MIDI clip and slice it, weird. This extends to other things, there's no reason 20 years later that Clips should only contain one audio or MIDI chunk slice whatever, but that's how it works in Live.

I just got sick of the numerous mixed messages Ableton sends with what it implements in Live. It's the WYSIWYG DAW, but some things aren't, it's meant to be intuitive, but here's Max 4 Live, it's meant for live performance, but they haven't developed anything in that area in a decade. I still keep it around, I'm just more excited about where Bitwig is heading lately.

[liquidsound]

Maybe I'm stupid, but Live is starting to bore me.... So I renewed my Bitwig license for over 300 credits....
Lemme see were this leads me. Gonna have a lot of questions, maybe.... It's been a while

I feel you on this one. There are numerous reasons why I should be using Live over Bitwig: collaboration, M4L SysEx plug in and the hundreds of plug ins for M4L, MIDI capture, MIDI comping, tempo matching, video hosting. I still end up using Bitwig, I've always loved Lives' Session View, time stretching, live performance workflow, but the basics of a DAW have always seemed like they almost hate them. So no real tools to slice and dice MIDI and audio, you still can't cut a MIDI note since there isn't any slice tool, and the command really only works on audio in the Arrangement. What kills my enthusiasm there is you can slice MIDI in the Arrangement, by cutting a clip in half, which makes the fact you can't just select a single MIDI clip and slice it, weird. This extends to other things, there's no reason 20 years later that Clips should only contain one audio or MIDI chunk slice whatever, but that's how it works in Live.

I just got sick of the numerous mixed messages Ableton sends with what it implements in Live. It's the WYSIWYG DAW, but some things aren't, it's meant to be intuitive, but here's Max 4 Live, it's meant for live performance, but they haven't developed anything in that area in a decade. I still keep it around, I'm just more excited about where Bitwig is heading lately.

At the end of the day whatever DAW allows you to do your job, that’s the one you will use the most.
Limitations are to be encountered everywhere: pick your best poison
Sometimes, you need to master just a perfect punch or a kick to defeat the opponent. Thousand kata will mess you up
Ableton is…. Ableton. It works wonders if you blend with its workflow and limitations. It does it with hundreds of thousands, and more, of users… but not (sufficiently) for you obviously, and that’s the journey of a musician.

[machinesworking]

Maybe I'm stupid, but Live is starting to bore me.... So I renewed my Bitwig license for over 300 credits....
Lemme see were this leads me. Gonna have a lot of questions, maybe.... It's been a while

I feel you on this one. There are numerous reasons why I should be using Live over Bitwig: collaboration, M4L SysEx plug in and the hundreds of plug ins for M4L, MIDI capture, MIDI comping, tempo matching, video hosting. I still end up using Bitwig, I've always loved Lives' Session View, time stretching, live performance workflow, but the basics of a DAW have always seemed like they almost hate them. So no real tools to slice and dice MIDI and audio, you still can't cut a MIDI note since there isn't any slice tool, and the command really only works on audio in the Arrangement. What kills my enthusiasm there is you can slice MIDI in the Arrangement, by cutting a clip in half, which makes the fact you can't just select a single MIDI clip and slice it, weird. This extends to other things, there's no reason 20 years later that Clips should only contain one audio or MIDI chunk slice whatever, but that's how it works in Live.

I just got sick of the numerous mixed messages Ableton sends with what it implements in Live. It's the WYSIWYG DAW, but some things aren't, it's meant to be intuitive, but here's Max 4 Live, it's meant for live performance, but they haven't developed anything in that area in a decade. I still keep it around, I'm just more excited about where Bitwig is heading lately.

At the end of the day whatever DAW allows you to do your job, that’s the one you will use the most.
Limitations are to be encountered everywhere: pick your best poison
Sometimes, you need to master just a perfect punch or a kick to defeat the opponent. Thousand kata will mess you up
Ableton is…. Ableton. It works wonders if you blend with its workflow and limitations. It does it with hundreds of thousands, and more, of users… but not (sufficiently) for you obviously, and that’s the journey of a musician.

The story of Live since I started using it in 2003 has always been you either love it’s limitations or you hope somehow whatever limitation it has gets addressed. I’ve always been in the later category. I’ve used it forever obviously, but I don’t really gel with the limited DAW approach, you either love the UX or you fall out of love with it.

I don’t like that Bitwig has simple quantization, limited arrangement functions, no SyS Ex etc. either. I love the focused approach of these DAWs but not the fact they limit features to achieve that.

[liquidsound]

Maybe I'm stupid, but Live is starting to bore me.... So I renewed my Bitwig license for over 300 credits....
Lemme see were this leads me. Gonna have a lot of questions, maybe.... It's been a while

I feel you on this one. There are numerous reasons why I should be using Live over Bitwig: collaboration, M4L SysEx plug in and the hundreds of plug ins for M4L, MIDI capture, MIDI comping, tempo matching, video hosting. I still end up using Bitwig, I've always loved Lives' Session View, time stretching, live performance workflow, but the basics of a DAW have always seemed like they almost hate them. So no real tools to slice and dice MIDI and audio, you still can't cut a MIDI note since there isn't any slice tool, and the command really only works on audio in the Arrangement. What kills my enthusiasm there is you can slice MIDI in the Arrangement, by cutting a clip in half, which makes the fact you can't just select a single MIDI clip and slice it, weird. This extends to other things, there's no reason 20 years later that Clips should only contain one audio or MIDI chunk slice whatever, but that's how it works in Live.

I just got sick of the numerous mixed messages Ableton sends with what it implements in Live. It's the WYSIWYG DAW, but some things aren't, it's meant to be intuitive, but here's Max 4 Live, it's meant for live performance, but they haven't developed anything in that area in a decade. I still keep it around, I'm just more excited about where Bitwig is heading lately.

At the end of the day whatever DAW allows you to do your job, that’s the one you will use the most.
Limitations are to be encountered everywhere: pick your best poison
Sometimes, you need to master just a perfect punch or a kick to defeat the opponent. Thousand kata will mess you up
Ableton is…. Ableton. It works wonders if you blend with its workflow and limitations. It does it with hundreds of thousands, and more, of users… but not (sufficiently) for you obviously, and that’s the journey of a musician.

The story of Live since I started using it in 2003 has always been you either love it’s limitations or you hope somehow whatever limitation it has gets addressed. I’ve always been in the later category. I’ve used it forever obviously, but I don’t really gel with the limited DAW approach, you either love the UX or you fall out of love with it.

I don’t like that Bitwig has simple quantization, limited arrangement functions, no SyS Ex etc. either. I love the focused approach of these DAWs but not the fact they limit features to achieve that.

And Limitations are quite personal... and the deal is: which limitations I am willing to endure "for now"?!

I look back and I produced the most out of Ableton and Reason.
Bitwig is the weekend fun, for me, but for others is the real deal. Why not....

[EnGee]

Neither Ableton Live, nor Bitwig for me actually! I've tried hard to feel either as my "natural" DAW but in the end I just feel they are not for me really!
I don't care about MPE or hundreds modulation options in Bitwig, nor the overall unique workflow in Live! I tried to make them my main DAW, but they just seem not to fit what I really want to do. As a creative tool, I find Reason better than both while Logic/Cubase are the best for editing and overall usage.

[liquidsound]

I stopped working in Reason when I discovered MuLab.
In MuLab I used Reason via Rewire because I preferred MuLab sequencer and MuLab overall modularity.

Yes, Reason was and still a great environment but I can’t enjoy the sequencer….

[EnGee]

The sequencer in Reason is ok, not excellent but can do the job for me and to be honest, I prefer Reason's than Live's. The problem is to keep switching between the three views when I want to adjust an instrument or a mixer related thing or sequencing. It gets tired as I have just one monitor.
Anyway, with ReWire is gone, I'm using it as VST in Cubase and AU in Logic as I really feel comfortable with those two advanced sequencers, especially Logic. So, I can't see a place for Live and/or Bitwig in this workflow.

[liquidsound]

Sure.
It’s a matter of personal style of working.
For example, I prefer Ableton piano roll to almost anything out there beside MuLab.
Go figure

[SLiC]

I think we now have to factor PUSH 3 in the Bitwig Vs Abelton debate as it offers even tighter hardware integration with MPE and it give the option of running Live standalone...(unless MOSS can write a script for that- who knows!)
viewtopic.php?p=8679017#p8679017

[EnGee]

Sure.
It’s a matter of personal style of working.
For example, I prefer Ableton piano roll to almost anything out there beside MuLab.
Go figure

What I prefer in Ableton, is the excellent integration with my novation launchkey mk3. It's the best I have seen with any keyboard That's alone makes me not willing to sell it really. Now, with a new synth, it gets harder to abandon it!

[liquidsound]

And now Push 3.
I can finally spend money again!

[EnGee]

I find the non standalone Push 3 to be excellent upgrade, though still expensive. Personally, I don't need Push. I had Push 2 and sold it as I prefer to use a midi keyboard to enter/automate data while mouse/keyboard is the best to edit for me.
However, I can see the standalone benefits for performers.

[pdxindy]

I think we now have to factor PUSH 3 in the Bitwig Vs Abelton debate as it offers even tighter hardware integration with MPE and it give the option of running Live standalone...(unless MOSS can write a script for that- who knows!)

Unless some gotchas show up, I expect that Ableton has set a new standard and Push 3 will be a huge success. If I were looking at buying it, I would be bummed that there's no phantom power. But I guess the battery life is already minimal. 90 minutes in real world use is not much.

[pdxindy]

However, I can see the standalone benefits for performers.

If I were a performer, I think I would still get the controller version and just bring my laptop. More flexible, could use plugins, and maybe longer battery life.