KVR Audio

SLiC · Post by **SLiC** » Tue May 30, 2023 9:13 am

50% off the last RRP is pretty good TBH...I have had my PUSH 2 about 6 years, no solid- kit and fully supported.
Novation controllers are pretty good, a bit 'generic' and no screen for feedback or touch encoders so nothing like the level of interaction you get with a Live and PUSH where all; the Live instruments and FX are displayed on the screen with encoders mapped etc.

As for Elektron, Polyend, Roland - all make good hardware drum machines/sequencers but a totally different thing to a controller with Live, if its just for home/studio use you really need to decide if you need standalone functionality (as that is what you are paying for) and all have a steep learning curve and limitations compared to Live/PUSH.

pdxindy · Post by **pdxindy** » Tue May 30, 2023 2:50 pm

SLiC wrote: ↑Tue May 30, 2023 9:13 am As for Elektron, Polyend, Roland - all make good hardware drum machines/sequencers but a totally different thing to a controller with Live, if its just for home/studio use you really need to decide if you need standalone functionality (as that is what you are paying for) and all have a steep learning curve and limitations compared to Live/PUSH.

The Elektron machines do have limitations compared to Live/Push. They also have strengths and advantages.

But as you point out, they are a different species of device from a MIDI controller.

To the OP, I was in Adelaide a couple years ago and stopped by a music store and they had a Push and a Force and various hardware machines from Akai, Roland etc.

It sounds like you don’t really know what you want so I suggest you take your time and learn more about different approaches. Go to your local store and see what they have. You can ask someone who works there if they know someone who has Push 2. You can ask if they could give you a demonstration… even offer to pay them a bit for their time. I’ve asked such things and frequently had favorable responses. Plenty of people are willing/happy to help.

pdxindy · Post by **pdxindy** » Tue May 30, 2023 2:50 pm

SLiC · Post by **SLiC** » Tue May 30, 2023 3:23 pm

pdxindy wrote: ↑Tue May 30, 2023 2:50 pm The Elektron machines do have limitations compared to Live/Push. They also have strengths and advantages.

Of course (that why I own so many of them

) but compared to a full DAW and all oof the available VSTS.... PUSH will give you most of the hardware feel and speed but with virtually unlimited expandability (and a much better display on the PUSH than any of my hardware!)

zerocrossing · Post by **zerocrossing** » Tue May 30, 2023 4:08 pm

I seriously think that Live-Push 3 is the best solution.

pdxindy · Post by **pdxindy** » Tue May 30, 2023 4:14 pm

SLiC wrote: ↑Tue May 30, 2023 3:23 pm
pdxindy wrote: ↑Tue May 30, 2023 2:50 pm The Elektron machines do have limitations compared to Live/Push. They also have strengths and advantages.
Of course (that why I own so many of them ) but compared to a full DAW and all oof the available VSTS.... PUSH will give you most of the hardware feel and speed but with virtually unlimited expandability (and a much better display on the PUSH than any of my hardware!)

Yeah… you like the Push more than I do.

Like I mentioned before, Push videos on YouTube are somewhat deceptive. In most cases, everything is set up and I suspect people are practicing in advance so that in the video it looks fast and precise.

If I set a project up in advance and practice a bit, I can record/perform it quickly and efficiently with my mouse too… and then I can do sound design, edit MIDI clips, bounce and edit audio, rearrange the song structure, etc., faster with the mouse and big screen than can be done using Push.

I don’t see Push videos doing all that nuts and bolts work. I think that gives potential buyers a mistaken impression that it’s faster and more efficient than it actually is.

Not saying Push is not a well designed controller, just that there are more weaknesses than most videos show and that especially right now with the excitement of the Push 3 release, it is easy for users jump without knowing what they are getting.

SLiC · Post by **SLiC** » Tue May 30, 2023 4:47 pm

I don't know about 'faster and more efficient', I don't do this for a living so for me the keywords are 'more fun and more inspiring to use'. I also pay a premium to have a hardware setup to get away from a keyboard and mouse (as I spend my day job doing that!). Although there is a good argument for everything ITB with just a KB and Mouse, I just don't enjoy it.

That said, I find PUSH at least as fast to use the other hardware drum machine/step sequencers I own and of course when I have something good going in PUSH it is far easier to convert to a song (by just 'sitting down with keyboard and mouse at the Live DAW) than the others where I normally have top bounce stems into a DAW...

cryophonik · Post by **cryophonik** » Tue May 30, 2023 5:10 pm

SLiC wrote: ↑Tue May 30, 2023 4:47 pm I don't know about 'faster and more efficient', I don't do this for a living so for me the keywords are 'more fun and more inspiring to use'. I also pay a premium to have a hardware setup to get away from a keyboard and mouse (as I spend my day job doing that!). Although there is a good argument for everything ITB with just a KB and Mouse, I just don't enjoy it.

That sums up my thoughts and situation perfectly. I owned a Push 2 for a while and it was definitely capable, solidly build, and more fun to use than a keyboard and mouse, I felt like it actually slowed me down so much that it affected my productivity and often got in the way of my creative flow. Admittedly, that's probably because Ableton is not my main DAW and I'm not a power user, so I don't think I was ever able to unleash the full power and advantages of Push 2.

Maschine is a different story, though. I've owned one since day one of its release and loved it early on when it was primarily a computer-integrated drum machine, but I've pretty much lost interest in it ever since NI turned it into this horrible monstrosity of a half-ass DAW. Now, my Maschine 3 just sits there collecting dust, but the resale prices are so low on it and I own so many expansions that I'm not sure if it's even worth selling it.

Regarding Elektron, I'm really loving my boxes and became a fanboy overnight. I wasted so much time over the last couple of decades trying to make my software feel more like hardware (e.g., with Maschine, Push 2, Komplete Kontrol). I'm loving having a room full of actual hardware synths and, especially, hardware like Elektron/Overbridge and synths with dedicated software editor plugins/librarians. I definitely prefer a workflow that is primarily OTB/hardware/hands-on focused with computer integration over one that is primarily ITB/computer-based with a bunch of hardware controllers. Then again, I'm pretty old-school when it comes to synths, so YMMV.

SLiC · Post by **SLiC** » Tue May 30, 2023 5:27 pm

cryophonik wrote: ↑Tue May 30, 2023 5:10 pm Regarding Elektron, I'm really loving my boxes and became a fanboy overnight.

Look like we have the same 2 ( Syntakt & Digitakt) they make a great pair!

I have been through a few of the others (including the Octotrack) but these are the 2 that really stuck for me (and RYTM but Syntakt covered my analogue drum needs and was a bit more fun to use)

Ultimately everyone goes on a (sometimes expensive) journey to find what works for them- if its efficiency and speed or flashing lights, knobs and fun (you should seem my Eurorack

)

pdxindy · Post by **pdxindy** » Tue May 30, 2023 11:43 pm

SLiC wrote: ↑Tue May 30, 2023 4:47 pm I don't know about 'faster and more efficient', I don't do this for a living so for me the keywords are 'more fun and more inspiring to use'. I also pay a premium to have a hardware setup to get away from a keyboard and mouse (as I spend my day job doing that!). Although there is a good argument for everything ITB with just a KB and Mouse, I just don't enjoy it.

Yeah, I never reached a point of finding Push fun. The reason I find the big screen and mouse fun is because it is visually evident. I don’t have to remember button combinations or how to do stuff that is obscure. On the big screen there is so much more visual information that I don’t feel any mental burden.

I’m also a hobbyist and if I went away for a couple weeks I’d come back and have to try to remember button combinations. I never experience that with the big screen.

The other thing that I found frustrating in using Push was it is not a full time tool for me. There was too high a percentage of the time where I was having to use the mouse. For example when working in arrange and so on. At that time, it became a big hunk of gear taking up prime space.

Anyway… plenty of people love it and I’m not trying to argue it’s value for them or you… just giving a different user perspective for someone considering a purchase of what is a fairly costly bit of gear.

3ptguitarist · Post by **3ptguitarist** » Wed May 31, 2023 12:36 am

What kind of music do you plan to make? Are you going to be playing live or just in your studio or both?

BrainBeatMusic · Post by **BrainBeatMusic** » Wed May 31, 2023 11:40 am

I watched this video today which was more helpful than most when looking at the Push 3 when compared to the Push 2 but also other standalone workstations. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lr2ID82WncY

fedexnman · Post by **fedexnman** » Wed May 31, 2023 12:24 pm

Yes ..... Nice video..... I don't own a PUSH... I have a "Launchpad X" that I'm pretty happy with , it's got velocity sensitive pads ,drum rack mode , scales modes , piano mode , some of the scales mode is almost setup like a guitar too .. which guitar and bass is my main instrument ... It does NOT have the chord mode . I think Launchpad Pro mk3 or whatever it's called has the chord mode but a lot of folks were like just buy a Push1 or 2 don't get that model was said ... ... I think you'll be happy getting a Push 2 or Push3 ... But if you are trying to save money check out the Novation Launchpad stuff too , I'm really happy with the Launchpad X for all my needs , but I'm a very simple user NOT a power user or a synth programer type of guy . I like a lot of smaller and mini type of controllers and laptops . So I like stuff like Launchpad X and Presonus Atom type of stuff , and NOT blow the bank type of things .

SLiC · Post by **SLiC** » Wed May 31, 2023 1:31 pm

Having just got the PUSH 3 standalone to day I would say 'save up' and you have probably the best controller and the best standalone 'workstation' available. To call kt a drum machine or groove box is not really doing it justice...its a amazingly expressive instrument, a fantastic stereo sampler, a great sequencer...it makes you see 'Suite' in a totally different way...

fedexnman · Post by **fedexnman** » Fri Jun 02, 2023 6:58 pm

To the OP you could also get you a Presonus Atom 16pad 4x4 controller to use with Live 11 too .... Check out this video https://youtube.com/watch?v=Z-_eerTVFes&feature=share7

Push 3 or Maschine MK3 or others?