Why on earth would you make this so incredibly unintuitive to use? No other synths need a separate area for controlling them. All you need is sensible mouse acceleration/smoothing.
Like I said, try any FabFilter plugin. I have 0.00x resolution yet that same control can be immediately moved from one extreme of it's range to the other (-1.0 to +1.0) with a single flick of the mouse. My mouse only moves about 3 or 4cm on the mouse mat. Full control, completely intuitive.
It makes absolutely no sense at all to have two different areas, that just means you are constantly juggling the mouse cursor position when you could just have one singular motion instead.
This is by far the worst experience of tweaking basic controls that I have ever had in any plugin ever. It just boggles the mind that this actually went through beta. I have an extremely hard time believing people find this intuitive.
Plugin sliders/knobs have had a standard set of operation decades ago. There is absolutely no need to reinvent that wheel. This is 100% a deal breaker for an otherwise great sounding synth. What a pity.
PLASMONIC - A new synth from Brian Clevinger
-
- KVRAF
- 2269 posts since 10 Jul, 2008 from Orbit NE US
I just downloaded the demo a week ago. My very fist impressions: wow! this is awesome, needs maybe a few details sorted (or i just need to reread the manual) but wow this is really awesome and...wow these horizontal sliders with the two focus areas are no fun at all. I was really tired one night and actually stopped using it. I don't think it will stop me from getting it but i am going to send an email and mention it.
also wondering where the envelope system from absynth went and also can we haz more LFOs.
also wondering where the envelope system from absynth went and also can we haz more LFOs.
gadgets an gizmos..make noise https://soundcloud.com/crystalawareness Restocked: 3/24
old stuff http://ww.dancingbearaudioresearch.com/
if this post is edited -it was for punctuation, grammar, or to make it coherent (or make me seem coherent).
old stuff http://ww.dancingbearaudioresearch.com/
if this post is edited -it was for punctuation, grammar, or to make it coherent (or make me seem coherent).
-
- KVRist
- 183 posts since 24 Dec, 2018 from France
You just have to hover on the correct part of the slider (coarse or fine) and mouse wheel or trackpad swipe…Very quick ! Rotary knobs in a computer environment where nothing is circular but x/y are more unnatural to me, honestly.
Philippe
-
machinesworking machinesworking https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=8505 - KVRAF
- 6214 posts since 15 Aug, 2003 from seattle
IMO it’s a coder VS UX issue. It makes sense in terms of not using keyboard, most plug ins use command or shift for fine control, but if you use a touch screen then this makes a bit more sense. I still don’t agree with the logic of course and fine being essentially reversed whether it follows some other logic or not, left and down should be the same control.bmanic wrote: ↑Wed May 31, 2023 5:34 pm Why on earth would you make this so incredibly unintuitive to use? No other synths need a separate area for controlling them. All you need is sensible mouse acceleration/smoothing.
Like I said, try any FabFilter plugin. I have 0.00x resolution yet that same control can be immediately moved from one extreme of it's range to the other (-1.0 to +1.0) with a single flick of the mouse. My mouse only moves about 3 or 4cm on the mouse mat. Full control, completely intuitive.
It makes absolutely no sense at all to have two different areas, that just means you are constantly juggling the mouse cursor position when you could just have one singular motion instead.
This is by far the worst experience of tweaking basic controls that I have ever had in any plugin ever. It just boggles the mind that this actually went through beta. I have an extremely hard time believing people find this intuitive.
Plugin sliders/knobs have had a standard set of operation decades ago. There is absolutely no need to reinvent that wheel. This is 100% a deal breaker for an otherwise great sounding synth. What a pity.
That said, Absynth was also strange in it implementation, but amazing, and that hold true for Plasmonic. So a bit of fussing doesn’t bother me that much, it’s still in my top ten.
-
- KVRist
- 341 posts since 30 Nov, 2008
great synth, but that mouse behaviour is a nightmare. not going to buy it in this state.
maybe give us the option to switch between two behaviours.
maybe give us the option to switch between two behaviours.
-
- KVRist
- 341 posts since 30 Nov, 2008
but why on earth code it for touchscreen?machinesworking wrote: ↑Wed May 31, 2023 8:02 pmIMO it’s a coder VS UX issue. It makes sense in terms of not using keyboard, most plug ins use command or shift for fine control, but if you use a touch screen then this makes a bit more sense. I still don’t agree with the logic of course and fine being essentially reversed whether it follows some other logic or not, left and down should be the same control.bmanic wrote: ↑Wed May 31, 2023 5:34 pm Why on earth would you make this so incredibly unintuitive to use? No other synths need a separate area for controlling them. All you need is sensible mouse acceleration/smoothing.
Like I said, try any FabFilter plugin. I have 0.00x resolution yet that same control can be immediately moved from one extreme of it's range to the other (-1.0 to +1.0) with a single flick of the mouse. My mouse only moves about 3 or 4cm on the mouse mat. Full control, completely intuitive.
It makes absolutely no sense at all to have two different areas, that just means you are constantly juggling the mouse cursor position when you could just have one singular motion instead.
This is by far the worst experience of tweaking basic controls that I have ever had in any plugin ever. It just boggles the mind that this actually went through beta. I have an extremely hard time believing people find this intuitive.
Plugin sliders/knobs have had a standard set of operation decades ago. There is absolutely no need to reinvent that wheel. This is 100% a deal breaker for an otherwise great sounding synth. What a pity.
That said, Absynth was also strange in it implementation, but amazing, and that hold true for Plasmonic. So a bit of fussing doesn’t bother me that much, it’s still in my top ten.
think most people use a mouse and keyboard still.
haven't seen it available for ios either.
-
- KVRAF
- 7795 posts since 28 Apr, 2013
Vision?
(He has a reputation for that.)
-
- KVRian
- 644 posts since 7 Jun, 2021
openly speaking:
agreed vs. the mouse Coarse/fine behave.
agreed: To me, overall a nightmare to dive into it. So i don´t.
The whole optical appearance is, ....like it was a beta. ymmv
i would guess Brian is losing so alots of customers.
And would guesswork further, that it´s in his own interest to change there something.
i could live with the split coarse/fine, IF it was donne clever. But its not .....edit: for my taste. ymmv
The sound is great. The potential probably huge
agreed vs. the mouse Coarse/fine behave.
agreed: To me, overall a nightmare to dive into it. So i don´t.
The whole optical appearance is, ....like it was a beta. ymmv
i would guess Brian is losing so alots of customers.
And would guesswork further, that it´s in his own interest to change there something.
i could live with the split coarse/fine, IF it was donne clever. But its not .....edit: for my taste. ymmv
The sound is great. The potential probably huge
-
- KVRAF
- 10361 posts since 3 Feb, 2003 from Finland, Espoo
Absynth has absolutely no problems with basic sliders and knobs. They work just fine.machinesworking wrote: ↑Wed May 31, 2023 8:02 pm That said, Absynth was also strange in it implementation, but amazing, and that hold true for Plasmonic. So a bit of fussing doesn’t bother me that much, it’s still in my top ten.
"Wisdom is wisdom, regardless of the idiot who said it." -an idiot
-
machinesworking machinesworking https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=8505
- KVRAF
- 6214 posts since 15 Aug, 2003 from seattle
Sure, but Absynth started off as a stand alone app, then went to having a stand alone element for the VST, basic sliders, there are three, for three different fine to course adjustments, it's not exactly a standard setup, and not really that much easier than what he's doing here. You initially didn't even grasp that there was a course and a fine setting, even though that's clearly stated in between the arrows that pop up when you hover over the sliders. I'm just saying initially you were not used to it, and that's colored your opinion to be even harsher than I think it deserves to be. hovering the mouse and you can adjust course and fine with the wheel etc.bmanic wrote: ↑Thu Jun 01, 2023 5:42 amAbsynth has absolutely no problems with basic sliders and knobs. They work just fine.machinesworking wrote: ↑Wed May 31, 2023 8:02 pm That said, Absynth was also strange in it implementation, but amazing, and that hold true for Plasmonic. So a bit of fussing doesn’t bother me that much, it’s still in my top ten.
Your reply:
It makes absolutely no sense at all to have two different areas, that just means you are constantly juggling the mouse cursor position when you could just have one singular motion instead.
Yeah, that's how Absynth works too, there are three slider buttons for adjusting parameters instead of option or shift etc.
-
- KVRAF
- 2846 posts since 8 Jun, 2018
about the sliders.... well you must get used to them, but once you are, they work fine. no problems anymore with them, in a way even easy now....
small message...
and it is a great, unique synth.
small message...
and it is a great, unique synth.
Primoridal Music: sadà\exposadà - Indusrial & Expanding Your Mind Hurts: Sound Brut
-
- KVRist
- 438 posts since 15 May, 2003 from R'lyeh
And why does everything have to mimic the setup of something else?
Plasmonic does things its own way the same way Absynth did. Its part of its charm and character and Brian's style. Its all there you just need to actually put in 2 minutes and get familiar with the layout.
Plasmonic does things its own way the same way Absynth did. Its part of its charm and character and Brian's style. Its all there you just need to actually put in 2 minutes and get familiar with the layout.
-
- KVRian
- 596 posts since 21 Jan, 2017
I don't get the angst, I use this synth and come up with magic everytime that I can't get from any other synth or instrument I own. I've never thought it was hard to use and the sound, far as what it does, is in a league of its own imo. Come to think of it I should use it more often, you can really build up a fantastic stable of presets with ease.
-
- KVRAF
- 10361 posts since 3 Feb, 2003 from Finland, Espoo
It could be a single toggle option in setup to make it work like 99.9999% of every other mouse controlled software. Simple as that. I'm pretty sure a lot of sales are lost because of the absolute shock you have when you install the synth and realize it's controls are incredibly awkward to use.
Trying to defend this as something "unique" or "And why does everything have to mimic the setup of something else?" is just plain silly. We are talking about the basic usability of the program, something that has been refined over decades. There are clear rules to how virtual sliders and knobs operate. Not just in music software but in _every_ software. They all work the exact same way, for good reason.
Up/Down movements with a mouse are far less straining on the hand and wrist than large side to side movements. So from a purely physiological point of view, this is a big failure to take such basics into account. Defend it all you want, there's no way around the fact that it's bad design.
The synthesizer itself is absolutely amazing sounding, no doubt about that. The capabilities of it are also second to none.
Oh well. I've said my thoughts on this enough. If you can cope with the way it operates now, all the more power to you. Don't go around pretending like it's a feature though. It isn't.
Trying to defend this as something "unique" or "And why does everything have to mimic the setup of something else?" is just plain silly. We are talking about the basic usability of the program, something that has been refined over decades. There are clear rules to how virtual sliders and knobs operate. Not just in music software but in _every_ software. They all work the exact same way, for good reason.
Up/Down movements with a mouse are far less straining on the hand and wrist than large side to side movements. So from a purely physiological point of view, this is a big failure to take such basics into account. Defend it all you want, there's no way around the fact that it's bad design.
The synthesizer itself is absolutely amazing sounding, no doubt about that. The capabilities of it are also second to none.
Oh well. I've said my thoughts on this enough. If you can cope with the way it operates now, all the more power to you. Don't go around pretending like it's a feature though. It isn't.
"Wisdom is wisdom, regardless of the idiot who said it." -an idiot
-
- KVRist
- 183 posts since 24 Dec, 2018 from France
« Up/Down movements with a mouse are far less straining on the hand and wrist than large side to side movements. So from a purely physiological point of view, this is a big failure to take such basics into account. Defend it all you want, there's no way around the fact that it's bad design.«
There is something you definitely did not get. If you’re PC, I don’t know, but on Mac, you don’t have to do any « large side movements ». Just hover on above fields then do a vertical swipe. Which should relate to a mouse wheel on PC I guess.
Just trying to help, you have all the rights to dislike Plasmonic sliders of course
There is something you definitely did not get. If you’re PC, I don’t know, but on Mac, you don’t have to do any « large side movements ». Just hover on above fields then do a vertical swipe. Which should relate to a mouse wheel on PC I guess.
Just trying to help, you have all the rights to dislike Plasmonic sliders of course
Philippe
