Why do establised geniuses like Gabriel and Ferry suck now?

[griels]

..'sledgehammer' and 'shock the monkey' are songs for weak people. one is 'i wanna help you overcome your problems,' one is 'stop being a f**king vegetable' and all i get is some guy screaming 'shock the monkey!' as if it's really important. that's not genius, that's sellnig records to morons.

I f**king loathed 'sledgehammer' (and still do)...

and 'sudio..' never really listened to the words, always figured he was talknig abotu his studio as a woman, with like, the worst, most horrible music there is. crap song, add more horns!

Awful song IMO too... Equally loathed... Nasty PCM horns are only a mild improvement on Collins' voice however

xoxos for president!

neither a follower nor a leader be

Dammit, scrub that then

[Bassballjg]

Still love to fantasize about Gabe and Genesis coming together for new music, however--could make an AWESOME pop record, really

yikes!

just for fun, my knowledge fo these names ~extends to 'sledgehammer,' 'shock the monkey,' 'the passion' and 's-s-sudio'

could never stand passion, was listening to kitaro and vangelis at 12 and heard it at 17, relly boring, choose not to remember why.. ut probably because it felt so much like it was designed for you to have a discrete reaction to it.

..'sledgehammer' and 'shock the monkey' are songs for weak people. one is 'i wanna help you overcome your problems,' one is 'stop being a f**king vegetable' and all i get is some guy screaming 'shock the monkey!' as if it's really important. that's not genius, that's sellnig records to morons.

and 'sudio..' never really listened to the words, always figured he was talknig abotu his studio as a woman, with like, the worst, most horrible music there is. crap song, add more horns!

not to say you're daft for enjoying them, just sharing my perspective on these 'hallowed innovators' or whatever.

all in all, their style of top 40 reminds me of gonig to a bbq last month, where i met this bass player/psych major who decided that since i was quiet, he'd analyse me.. first he drops 7 years off my perceived age, then suggests that i listen to 'rage against the machine,' because 'that music will put some aggressive spirit in you which is (a) *moi*?? and (b) "..do you always let recordings do my thinking for you??" which is sorta the gabriel/collins aesthetic.

i can't really see these guys as anything more than leftovers of an era where record companies touted more productive artists as superstars in order to sell lots of records.. oh, wait.. that era still continues...

come on, dude.. "s-s-sudio.." is there some outstanding musicianship or message in that i missed??? :p *extremely puzzled*

all i see is just some twats up there so there's an clearly delineated "up there" and a "down here"

s- s- sudioooo

Entitled to your opinion as you are, and I would not presume to disabuse you of it, if it truly is based on so few songs it is in all fairness an uninformed one. This thread has been an interesting one, based as it is on a dialogue among people who have been familiar with the whole careers of Peter Gabriel/Genesis and Bryan Ferry/Roxy Music, some who don't like how their music has changed over the years and those of us who do. That, and the broader implications of how artists' work and people's tastes change over time.

I've got no personal problem with you about this, if you heard the music you heard and disliked them, fine. But it is perhaps inappropriately presumptuous to condemn as worthless entire musical careers of which you are largely ignorant.

Just my opinion about the logic of your post, and not a personal attack, I assure you.

[griels]

just for fun

[jens]

Still love to fantasize about Gabe and Genesis coming together for new music, however--could make an AWESOME pop record, really

yikes!

you're stepping in that typical 'consumer'-trap there, mate, to decide the quality of an artist based on his single-hits.

If you want to be able to judge something you need the virtue of being able to look behind the obvious facade.

You failed miserably.

[Kriminal]

Established geniuses?

Havent they always sucked?

no

You sure?

[jens]

Established geniuses?

Havent they always sucked?

no

You sure?

yes

[xoxos]

erm.. and how is the facade not substance in and of itself?

it's all a matter of scope, really, eg. if your scope is to judge the musicality of commercial artists, then the facade/medium is beyond your scope of interest.

it's like if you were judging a contest of shit scuplturing, you would ignore the fact that they are made out of shit.

[Kriminal]

Established geniuses?

Havent they always sucked?

no

You sure?

yes

Surely you're not old enough to remember the non suck era?

[jens]

erm.. and how is the facade not substance in and of itself?

it's all a matter of scope, really, eg. if your scope is to judge the musicality of commercial artists, then the facade/medium is beyond your scope of interest.

it's like if you were judging a contest of shit scuplturing, you would ignore the fact that they are made out of shit.

yeah - you're right - but there's no use then of discussing it with stone-sculpturers...

[jens]

Established geniuses?

Havent they always sucked?

no

You sure?

yes

Surely you're not old enough to remember the non suck era?

Yes, I am

[donkey tugger]

s- s- sudioooo

You love it!

[Kriminal]

Established geniuses?

Havent they always sucked?

no

You sure?

yes

Surely you're not old enough to remember the non suck era?

Yes, I am

Really? You dont look it.

[donkey tugger]

Here we go just for oxo;, from my forthcoming Phil Collins tribute album..

against t'thodds

[Har]

Here we go just for oxo;, from my forthcoming Phil Collins tribute album..

against t'thodds

Ohhh shit, I'll be back, I just pissed my pants from laughing so hard and gotta go clean up the mess...

[paul minot]

For what it's worth, xoxos, if you only know those works then you don't know shit about these artists. I pretty much loathe all the Collins-era Genesis stuff, ESPECIALLY "Sussudio" or whatever it was. I kind of like "Sledgehammer", being an OK sort of 80s pop tune with an enjoyable video. I agree that "Shock the Monkey" is entirely overrated--the video was notable for introducing some disturbing content to MTV, but the song is inane and apparently pointless, and the mix is terribly muddy and dated as well. Agree with you about "Passion" as well--couldn't have said it better myself, and pretty much exemplifies what I DON'T like about Gabriel's solo music when he tries to be ambitious. His third world appropriation is bland and pretentious at the same time.

The reason why Gabriel and Banks were good together was chemical--Banks was a particularly melodious and tasteful progrock keyboardist that had a sort of Tchaikovskyesque quality of writing classically oriented themes that were more emotionally appealing than intellectually gripping. Not at all boring, but haunting, memorable, with good arrangements and harmonic transitions. Gabriel added the spice--his lyrical explorations were often silly or immature, like others have stated here, but he took a lot of risks and pushed the band into adventurous terrain. Besides, Banks, Gabriel, and Rutherford were all public school chums--which adds an interesting wrinkle of personal familiarity.

Collins has already said that he would ONLY consider a Genesis reunion now if Gabriel would do the lead vocals. And if you ever listened to the old stuff, you would know that Collins is a VERY formidable drummer. Apparently he has the taste to know that this was the best lineup of the band, and would be worth revisiting. I myself would be very intrigued to see what they could do together musically, now that they have all had their popular success, with nothing otherwise to gain or prove.

Unless you have ever heard "The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway", "Supper's Ready", and/or "Selling Engalnd by the Pound", you simply wouldn't understand what the hell I am talking about. No offense intended, BTW.