Intel Raptor Lake 13th Generation Core CPUs

[Jac459]

You can easily gauge performance by looking at Cinebench R23 results.
13900k multi-threaded score is over 40k.
That beats the 7950x... and it smokes the M2.

That's incorrect , you should say "and it smokes the M1 Ultra", as Ultra is more the equivalent of I7, I9 on PC world and M2 Ultra is not yet out (but I doubt they will outclass the 13900k anyway).
That is sad because the power efficiency of intel is so bad, it is 253w TDP peak and 150w TDP versus 60w TDP for the M1 Ultra...
If Apple was stoping its "I know better than you what you want" and started to offer a wider range, in particular in the top end, I am sure they coud propose an Ultra, really Ultra, with 8M2 core that would just blast everything arround with a TDP slightly above 100w....

Search for M2 Cinebench R23 scores.
M2 Max will not compete head-to-head with the 13900k/s.

Apple designed the M1 and M2 for use in tight enclosures.
Comes down to if you prefer small/sleek power-efficient... or the fastest CPU available.

With proper cooling, the 13900k (and 7950x) runs fast and quiet.
What it's not is small and inexpensive.

I will guess you didn't read my post properly... You are saying exactly the same thing I said .

[legendCNCD]

Live 10 and 11 both work great on 13th Gen CPUs.
Live isn't the most CPU efficient DAW... but that's another conversation.

Sure its not, but daymn if it isn't fast to compose on it compared to everything else I've used before. Thanks!

[Ex Machina]

So? It's not like heat is any kind of problem and they sure as hell delivered with the 12th Gen - a humble Core i5 outperforms Apple's M2. My ROG Flow Z13 runs cool as a cucumber. I've only had it a few weeks but I'm not sure I've ever heard the fans kick in. It's a similar story with the 11th Gen in my laptop, which I've had for around 6 months - the only time I hear the fans in that are when I'm rendering and it's maxxing everything out at 2x or 3x realtime.

A 12th Gen Intel Core i5 does not outperform an Apple M2 chip, especially if you get the 12 core version of the M2. Actually, a base model 14" M2 MacBook Pro (with only 10 CPU cores and 16GB of RAM) outperforms a Samsung Galaxy 3 Ultra laptop with a 13th Gen Intel Core i9 13900H CPU, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 4070 GPU, and 32GB of RAM. The Samsung is loud as f^ck even when idling with no programs open. And the performance is almost cut in half when you disconnect the Samsung from its power brick. Oh, and the M2 MacBook Pro is cheaper and its battery life is double that of the Samsung.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=srxJpEpC5Cs

If you want to build a ginormous, water-cooled PC tower with a 13th Gen Core i9 13900K desktop processor, you probably won't need to heat your house in the winter. So there's that.

I personally would rather have two M2 Pro Mac minis sitting whisper quiet on my desk and cool to the touch.

[BONES]

A 12th Gen Intel Core i5 does not outperform an Apple M2 chip, especially if you get the 12 core version of the M2.

Sorry to burst your bubble but in some benchmarks, a lowly Core i3 outperforms an M2. I've posted links to benchmarks, the results are there for all to see and they are undeniable. That's not to say they'd outperform an M2 overall, but they are the low end of Intel's offerings and the high-end processors easily best Apple's CPUs. It's not something you can argue about, it's verifiable fact. Apple Silicon is competitive but it isn't better than either AMD or Intel's best processors.

Actually, a base model 14" M2 MacBook Pro (with only 10 CPU cores and 16GB of RAM) outperforms a Samsung Galaxy 3 Ultra laptop with a 13th Gen Intel Core i9 13900H CPU, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 4070 GPU, and 32GB of RAM.

The Samsung is using mobile CPUs, which are lower powered. There are more powerful options available. There are also dozens of other brands who undoubtedly offer better value.

And the performance is almost cut in half when you disconnect the Samsung from its power brick.

Only until you tell it not to be. Any Windows laptop can be set up to run any way you like it to. I understand that the concept of choice is foreign to Apple users butt it's something the rest of the world tends to appreciate.

Oh, and the M2 MacBook Pro is cheaper and its battery life is double that of the Samsung.

ONly if you are stupid enough to pay full price. When I bought my Samsung laptop in 2012, I think I paid just a little more than half of full retail for it, from a big box store with full warranty, during their EOFY sale. That's another thing that choice brings you - competition and big discounts. My new laptop, for example, has a list price here of Au$3700 but I got mine, brand new with full warranty, for Au$2600 delivered.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=srxJpEpC5Cs

I'm not sure why you posted this, it just shows that the Samsung is faster and better than the MB Pro. The Mac only beat it in one out of five benchmarks -

Benchmark 1.png

Benchmark 2.png

Benchmark 5.png

Benchmark 3.png

Benchmark 4.png

[donkey tugger]

Not arsed about what computer other people are using (happy trundling along on me ancient craptop..), but am never keen on wilful ignorance of facts. I'm sure people have plenty of reasons (outlined already variously) for using macs, and that's all fine. What they can't do is blatantly spout spurious arse about performance, given the thousands of tests;

https://www.cpubenchmark.net/laptop.html

https://www.cpubenchmark.net/desktop.html

[Ex Machina]

The Samsung is using mobile CPUs, which are lower powered. There are more powerful options available.

Right, like you're going to stick a 13th Gen Core i9 13900K desktop processor in a laptop. Good luck with that. The FACT is that M2 MacBook Pros are better than any shitty PC laptop, hands down. Everything from design, port selection, display quality, keyboard quality, battery life, trackpad responsiveness, power connectivity (i.e., MagSafe chargers that disconnect if you accidentally trip over your power cable and which don't require you to use one of your USB Type-C or Thunderbolt 4 ports for charging,) webcam, AND real world performance.

You are so uninformed it's laughable.

The only PC laptops worth owning are the Dell XPS models. And that's because they're the most Mac-like. Asus laptops are almost all horrible unless you're a man-child gamer.

I just did a quick search for "best laptops 2023." Guess which ones came in first and second place? The M2 MacBook Air and the M2 MacBook Pro.

https://www.theverge.com/21250695/best-laptops

Not even a dorky tech site thinks that PC laptops are any good.

[Jac459]

Only until you tell it not to be. Any Windows laptop can be set up to run any way you like it to. I understand that the concept of choice is foreign to Apple users butt it's something the rest of the world tends to appreciate.

Your comment about lack of choice with apple is spot on, and I'll probably go back to PC one day because of that. But it isn't actually true that Windows laptop always offer the choice of running full speed on battery. In particular the gaming laptops, they rarely do just because the battery isn't powerful enough...

[Jac459]

Right, like you're going to stick a 13th Gen Core i9 13900K desktop processor in a laptop. Good luck with that. The FACT is that M2 MacBook Pros are better than any shitty PC laptop, hands down. Everything from design, port selection, display quality, keyboard quality, battery life, trackpad responsiveness, power connectivity (i.e., MagSafe chargers that disconnect if you accidentally trip over your power cable and which don't require you to use one of your USB Type-C or Thunderbolt 4 ports for charging,) webcam, AND real world performance.

You are so uninformed it's laughable.

Well, sorry man, but I feel both sides are lacking objectivity here... I am typing this message on my m2 pro MacBook. The design is ok but certainly not the best of all laptops.

And more importantly, if we are talking about fact, how come on a laptop bought in f**king 2023, at a reasonably high price range, I don't have the choice for OLED ??? OLED <b>IS</b> currently the best screen technology, period. Why I can't have it on my Mac ???? Screen technology does matter an awful lot on a laptop. Also, how come isn't it touch yet ????

If I could choose, I'll probably go for a PC laptop constructor, with an M2 inside (common, I understand that intel is catching up, but saying that the power efficiency ratio doesn't count on a laptop is ridiculous) probably windows (as macOS doesn't have touch), a 4k OLED touch screen and an apple track pad... That would be the best of both world...

[Ex Machina]

Well, sorry man, but I feel both sides are lacking objectivity here... I am typing this message on my m2 pro MacBook. The design is ok but certainly not the best of all laptops.

And more importantly, if we are talking about fact, how come on a laptop bought in f**king 2023, at a reasonably high price range, I don't have the choice for OLED ??? OLED <b>IS</b> currently the best screen technology, period. Why I can't have it on my Mac ???? Screen technology does matter an awful lot on a laptop. Also, how come isn't it touch yet ????

If I could choose, I'll probably go for a PC laptop constructor, with an M2 inside (common, I understand that intel is catching up, but saying that the power efficiency ratio doesn't count on a laptop is ridiculous) probably windows (as macOS doesn't have touch), a 4k OLED touch screen and an apple track pad... That would be the best of both world...

Almost every reviewer comparing an OLED screen PC laptop with a MacBook Pro prefers the Mac's "Liquid Retina XDR" display. Nearly 100%.

And who in their right mind would want a battery hogging touch screen on a laptop (or any monitor for that matter)? Laptop touch screens have always been stupid and Apple understands this. Do you really think the company that brought you the iPhone and iPad wouldn't put a touch screen on their laptops if it made any sense?

If you really want a screen on which to take notes, draw sketches, etc., get an iPad Pro. The M2 MacBook Pro and M2 iPad Pro work seamlessly together with each device providing its unique strengths as opposed to some gimped laptop touch screen compromise that doesn't really support either use case.

[revvy]

Apple users: when your posts appear as needy as bones’ , it’s probably time to step away from the forum. Just saying. IMHO. etc.

[JerGoertz]

My Mac can beat up your PC

[Ex Machina]

Your comment about lack of choice with apple is spot on, and I'll probably go back to PC one day because of that.

Ok, I'll bite. What type of laptop do think is missing from Apple's current lineup? Apple still sells the original M1 MacBook Air for people on a budget who still want a top quality laptop. If you want a more modern, refined version of the M1 MacBook Air, there is the sublime M2 MacBook Air which has a faster processor, supports more RAM, has a better screen, better webcam, better speakers, etc. And if the rumors are true, Apple will be releasing a 15" version of the M2 MacBook Air very soon (if not next week).

Then there are the M2 MacBook Pros which can be configured with the amount of storage, RAM, CPU/GPU cores, etc. that best fits your budget and needs. It comes in two sensible sizes, 14" and 16".

Then there is the new M2 Pro Mac Mini and the Mac Studio (which comes in at two different price points depending on how many CPU/GPU cores you need).

Yes, Apple is still lacking a more configurable/extensible "Mac Pro." But the consensus is that Apple is waiting for their Taiwanese ARM chip supplier TMSC to perfect their 3 nanometer fab process. Apple may actually announce new M3 3 nanometer devices at next week's Developer Conference. That chip is likely to provide next level performance and battery life.

Yes, there are many, many crappy plastic PC laptops with horrible screens, keyboards, trackpads, and webcams with terrible Intel graphics and the bare amount of RAM to even run. I would hope you are not suggesting that Apple join this race to the bottom.

[Jac459]

Almost every reviewer comparing an OLED screen PC laptop with a MacBook Pro prefers the Mac's "Liquid Retina XDR" display. Nearly 100%.

And who in their right mind would want a battery hogging touch screen on a laptop (or any monitor for that matter)? Laptop touch screens have always been stupid and Apple understands this. Do you really think the company that brought you the iPhone and iPad wouldn't put a touch screen on their laptops if it made any sense?

If you really want a screen on which to take notes, draw sketches, etc., get an iPad Pro. The M2 MacBook Pro and M2 iPad Pro work seamlessly together with each device providing its unique strengths as opposed to some gimped laptop touch screen compromise that doesn't really support either use case.

Well... A few remarks.

I had a Laptop with a 4K OLED screen before. There is no way this screen can't be seen as widely better than the Mac. It isn't even in the same ballpark category. Little by little, Apple goes to OLED, nearly 5-10 years after the others. If you are talking about the iPad Pro, apple is planning to switch to oled next years... It is about time... Now oled uses more battery, it can be an excuse but we should be able to have choice...

Touch: I didn't know that touch was that battery hogging... How come phones manage to have good battery life with it is true smaller screen, but also hugely smaller battery.
That feels like a pale excuse...

On the iPad Pro vs Laptop.... Well, we should have choice... That's the point... I don't want somebody to decide for me...

On the iPad and MacBook working seamlessly together... I do agree that you have some nice integration features (mostly not useful though)... But when you see that you can't even charge your phone with the same charger than your laptop or your tablet... I think it is a joke... that is freaking useful, every time I am not home, I am so happy not to have to bring 76 different chargers... It is usb c for everybody... Done... How come apple hasn't understood that when it exists since 7 years on other brands...

Well as a conclusion. Nothing is perfect (a part from Bitwig of course (don't react, I am just joking). Each ecosystem has his own strengths and weaknesses.

[Jac459]

Yes, there are many, many crappy plastic PC laptops with horrible screens, keyboards, trackpads, and webcams with terrible Intel graphics and the bare amount of RAM to even run. I would hope you are not suggesting that Apple join this race to the bottom.

Well, there is also laptops with crazy good form factors, like Asus and its double screen line-up (one screen in the keyboard), you have the surface book which is for me immensely more beautiful than the Mac, then you have the high-end dell with bezel that are much smaller than the mbp...
And then you can use an oled screen if you want (much much much much much better than the current map tech).

So yes, choice is nice... Today I don't have because I want a powerful RISC processor and only apple has it... But tomorrow let's see... And competition is good for us...

[Ex Machina]

I had a Laptop with a 4K OLED screen before. There is no way this screen can't be seen as widely better than the Mac. It isn't even in the same ballpark category. Little by little, Apple goes to OLED, nearly 5-10 years after the others. If you are talking about the iPad Pro, apple is planning to switch to oled next years... It is about time... Now oled uses more battery, it can be an excuse but we should be able to have choice...

OLED and Liquid Retina XDR (Mini LED) panels each have their pros and cons. OLED screens have very deep blacks and typically somewhat higher pixel density for sharper text (but it's not night and day). Apple's Mini LED displays are noticeably brighter and don't suffer from "burn in" the way OLED panels do.

I personally prefer the brighter MacBook Pro displays (with up to 1,600 nits of peak brightness vs 400 nits on most OLED panels) and ProMotion 120 Hz refresh rate (though Samsung now makes an OLED panel with a 240 Hz refresh rate which is great for gaming). Neither necessarily trumps the other.

That said, Apple is slowly moving to OLED displays. I suspect they are waiting on brighter OLED panels.

It's interesting that Samsung is coming out with a non-OLED Mini LED 27" "ViewFinity 9" 5K monitor this year that is a near perfect knock off of the $1,600 Apple 27" 5K Studio Display. Only the Samsung is much more feature rich in terms of connectivity, built in apps that allow you to use it as a Smart TV, and a much better webcam. I think it might be time to swap out my 34" 29:9 widescreen LG Thunderbolt display. As my eyesight gets worse as I age, I need a sharper display.