KVR Audio

chk071 · Post by **chk071** » Sat Jun 10, 2023 1:23 am

I guess noone can tell in the long run. For now, I don't think you have to apprehend that it won't work tomorrow.

As for alternatives: Nope, I couldn't name one. Cakewalk by Bandlab was (and is) by far the best free offering. Anything else is either old, doesn't support VST3, or is simply a very cut down version of payware.

avid_d · Post by **avid_d** » Sat Jun 10, 2023 1:57 am

It seems to me that Tracktion Waveform 12 Free edition may be in prime place as a DAW which is not limited on the number of tracks, works with VST3 and is actively maintained (sort of - see various posts in this forum on the latest 12.5 issues). I really like the workflow of Waveform (moving from Cakewalk may involve a steep learning curve for a seasoned Cakewalk user) but my own experience of Waveform Pro is that it is quite temperamental and I find any projects I have in it can take a surprisingly long time to save (I no longer use it as my daily DAW).

The only other free DAW I have tried which did VST3 and unlimited tracks and didn't crash frequently is Soundbridge, but I didn't like it at all.

surreal · Post by **surreal** » Sat Jun 10, 2023 2:59 am

chk071 wrote: ↑Sat Jun 10, 2023 1:23 am I guess noone can tell in the long run. For now, I don't think you have to apprehend that it won't work tomorrow.

As for alternatives: Nope, I couldn't name one. Cakewalk by Bandlab was (and is) by far the best free offering. Anything else is either old, doesn't support VST3, or is simply a very cut down version of payware.

Thank you very much for your input chk071!

surreal · Post by **surreal** » Sat Jun 10, 2023 3:00 am

avid_d wrote: ↑Sat Jun 10, 2023 1:57 am It seems to me that Tracktion Waveform 12 Free edition may be in prime place as a DAW which is not limited on the number of tracks, works with VST3 and is actively maintained (sort of - see various posts in this forum on the latest 12.5 issues). I really like the workflow of Waveform (moving from Cakewalk may involve a steep learning curve for a seasoned Cakewalk user) but my own experience of Waveform Pro is that it is quite temperamental and I find any projects I have in it can take a surprisingly long time to save (I no longer use it as my daily DAW).

The only other free DAW I have tried which did VST3 and unlimited tracks and didn't crash frequently is Soundbridge, but I didn't like it at all.

Thank you for the suggestion, will check it out!

wetdentist · Post by **wetdentist** » Sat Jun 10, 2023 4:19 am

i have been using Cakewalk DAWs since i started using a computer with music 22 years ago, and the current version is by far the best. it was nice to have a few years here where i could devote my music money on stuff other than keeping my DAW up-to-date, and i fully took advantage of them, because i am satisfied with my guitars sitch, my pedalboard sitch & my soft synths, etc. i look forward to see what the Cakewalk people over at Bandlab will be doing with the software that i use just about every day.

Saffran · Post by **Saffran** » Sat Jun 10, 2023 8:52 am

surreal wrote: ↑Fri Jun 09, 2023 9:33 pm Hi everyone, what would you suggest as a free or low priced replacement for Sonar that would support vst3?

I have Reaper as a backup. First thing after install i add the path to Cakewalks plugin folder. If i have authorized the plugin in Cakewalk it doesn't need to be authorized again in Reaper. It also take care of "clap" plugins which Cakewalk doesn't support at the moment.

lfm · Post by **lfm** » Sat Jun 10, 2023 9:59 am

surreal wrote: ↑Sat Jun 10, 2023 12:54 am true that. but if i need to reinstall after doing a windows update... thats what i am concerned about... Eventhough cakewalk by badlab was free it still requested me to re authorize the software to keep working every 6 months so in essence it was and still is and extended demo for what is going to end.. Imagine working on bandlab cakewalk all your production hours in the "free" version and 6 months down the line it asks to reauthorize and then you get a friendly pop up saying... thank you for using the free version of cakewalk, please select one of the following options to continue using Cakewalk by bandlab.. or worse still.. this product is no longer supported and cannot be authorised..

Music making obviously means a lot to you, so I don't get this obsession that a daw should be free?

a) I would wait see what new Sonar offers there will be
Then knowing it inside out already, nothing new to learn

b) there are entry level versions from $40-100 or so in the entire field of daws.

I ran Mixcraft 7 for a bit many years ago, and there were loads of content and synths and plugins with it. Now on v10 or something I think I saw.

Do you have a good soundcard already, otherwise they are usually shipped with decent free daws too.

Saffran · Post by **Saffran** » Sat Jun 10, 2023 11:21 am

Why isn't anybody talking about Clap plugin format?
There isn't even a hint from the developing team.
Are Sonar going to support the Clap format?
Are Next going to support the Clap format?

Examigan · Post by **Examigan** » Sat Jun 10, 2023 11:31 am

I hope they do, and have a decent upgrade type of price for their customers from the past.

kritikon · Post by **kritikon** » Sat Jun 10, 2023 1:08 pm

Probably because Clap has no relevance to the average user. I'm sure there are some limitations to VST3, but in all honesty I have never used one single plugin where I've been aware of it. The big thing when VST3 came out was easy sidechaining, and even that is a niche thing. I've used it but mostly don't. Even with dynamics it's rare I do anything where I NEED sidechaining. It appears to me to be a fad that is hopefully waning...those godawful pop dance tunes where the volume pumps up and down with the kick...awful engineering of the worst kind, but seems to be dying thank God. So whatever midi limitations with VST3, it's only a small number of people that Clap benefits.

TBH whether it use Clap or VST3 is of far less importance to me than which shade of pink is used in the GUI. I doubt too many others are different. Not saying it's not useful to a small minority, but sadly you are a minority and minority consumers tend not to be catered for.

Saffran · Post by **Saffran** » Sat Jun 10, 2023 2:12 pm

Keep your fingers crossed then so Steinberg never put a full stop to vst3. They own it and only lend it for others to use.

DNnX · Post by **DNnX** » Sat Jun 10, 2023 3:41 pm

+1 hoping for CLAP format.
That's the only new function I really need for the current Cakewalk by Bandlab.

lfm · Post by **lfm** » Sat Jun 10, 2023 9:05 pm

What plugins would be available in CLAP and not VST2/3?
- it would be devs with a death wish

That is the real question to me.
What functionality would it bring through the plugins.

VST3 seems not going forward that so many devs have a hard time make multi out instruments work in all daws. Things that were no problem in VST2 it seems. Steinberg overcomplicated VST3 and some plugins I have only worked with Cubase when I used that. Settled for VST2 versions instead.

Would CLAP be better than VST3 in this sense, that everybody knows how to implement?
- both plugins vendors and daw vendors

Pretty sure CLAP is not in new Sonar. That they focus on features for the many.

But here some comments on Cakewalk forum started sept last fall
https://discuss.cakewalk.com/index.php? ... b=comments

There will always be early adopters to like MPE, Osmose and now CLAP. But the rest of the world does not care.
- or I am wrong and not open minded enough

kritikon · Post by **kritikon** » Sun Jun 11, 2023 2:46 am

No, not wrong, most of the world doesn't care. I wasn't aware multi-out plugins was an issue in VST3. If that's true, again not sure how many users would be bothered. It's so easy to load another instance of a plugin inside a DAW on its own dedicated channel with its own Eq, effects & inserts...not sure what the benefit of multi-out plugins would be? No deal-breaker to me for any plugin. But I use Cubase...Groove Agent has multi-outs (that I don't use). If I want more drums doing something different, I load another GA on another channel. GA obvs works under VST3 with multi outs though...4 stereo outs IIRC? Why can't other developers make multi-outs work when Steinberg can?

Another non-issue to most users.

kritikon · Post by **kritikon** » Sun Jun 11, 2023 2:58 am

Saffran wrote: ↑Sat Jun 10, 2023 2:12 pm Keep your fingers crossed then so Steinberg never put a full stop to vst3. They own it and only lend it for others to use.

No need to cross my fingers. Won't happen. Well, they will stop VST3 when VST4 comes out, but there will be years for that...it was 15 yrs or so between VST2 and 3 wasn't it? Probably longer? No way Cubase will stop leasing out VST3 either - how many Cubases do you think they'd sell if it no longer loaded any 3rd party plugins? Pretty sure Steinberg aren't into economic suicide. I'm a reasonably loyal Steinberg customer, but I'd drop them like a stone if they disallowed 3rd party plugins, as would others.

Cakewalk free version being phased out