Mac Mini M2/M2 pro

[Jac459]

1. You recommend M2 Pro over M2 for music production, right? Ignoring SSD here.

2.On my Windows I use 32 GB RAM since I use a lot of sample based instruments, so I wonder if 16 GB will be fine for M2/Pro. I used to use 16 GB earlier and it did work well, but I am not sure about Macs. I assume 16 GB would be sufficient.

I was using an m1 8gb before and the memory pressure was high. Memory pressure is an apple term to say that in fact the RAM wasn't enough. Even this way, I was having no issue, no click, sound drop even if I were using 10GB of actual memory vs 8gb of physical memory. So basically the SSD works very well and cope with the lack of RAM if necessary.
Now that I am on a MacBook M2 Pro, I use between 12GB and 13GB even when I use large sample library (I am using some UVI sample banks like World Suite 2) with tons of plugins. So there is still security to go to 16GB. And then even if I one day I reach 16GB, I know the system will manage it transparently.
So my conclusion is 16GB is enough... 32GB is just wasted money (for my use case of music production.

3. Do M1 Native apps/software/plugins run on M2 as is without any additional workarounds or there's a support problem here as was when moving from Intel to Apple Silicon? I assume there wouldn't be.

M1 to M2 is not a "transition" like Intel to Apple Silicon was. It is the same technology and it is absolutely 100% transparent.

4. What audio interface do you use and did you face any driver problems? I am asking because my audio interface is Mac compatible, but I am not sure if the audio drivers need to be specifically Apple Silicon compatible. It's Komplete Audio 6 MK1 btw. Would it work with Mac mini M2/Pro?

5. Lastly, can I use my existing USB keyboard (generic) and mouse (G502 Hero) with a Mac?

Can't tell for sure, I don't have the same products. What I can tell you is I didn't care assuming there would be no compatibility issue and I never had any...

[LoveEnigma18]

Thanks a lot for your detailed reply. I appreciate it.

1. You recommend M2 Pro over M2 for music production, right? Ignoring SSD here.

2.On my Windows I use 32 GB RAM since I use a lot of sample based instruments, so I wonder if 16 GB will be fine for M2/Pro. I used to use 16 GB earlier and it did work well, but I am not sure about Macs. I assume 16 GB would be sufficient.

I was using an m1 8gb before and the memory pressure was high. Memory pressure is an apple term to say that in fact the RAM wasn't enough. Even this way, I was having no issue, no click, sound drop even if I were using 10GB of actual memory vs 8gb of physical memory. So basically the SSD works very well and cope with the lack of RAM if necessary.
Now that I am on a MacBook M2 Pro, I use between 12GB and 13GB even when I use large sample library (I am using some UVI sample banks like World Suite 2) with tons of plugins. So there is still security to go to 16GB. And then even if I one day I reach 16GB, I know the system will manage it transparently.
So my conclusion is 16GB is enough... 32GB is just wasted money (for my use case of music production.

Great to know this. I would certainly go for 16 GB, but I wonder if it will be future proof should I need more RAM. I am planning to go for 512 GB storage, which should allow for a high virtual memory and faster swapping, as you mentioned. Mac mini M2 Pro doesn't have 24 GB option and 32 GB is like $400 more (~ $480 locally on Apple Online store). So, that's indeed a huge cost addition. I may have to stick to 16 GB memory and 512 GB storage option.

Could you please tell me how much free storage you have when you first got your MacBook Pro? For 512 GB I am hoping there will be about 450 GB to start with.

3. Do M1 Native apps/software/plugins run on M2 as is without any additional workarounds or there's a support problem here as was when moving from Intel to Apple Silicon? I assume there wouldn't be.

M1 to M2 is not a "transition" like Intel to Apple Silicon was. It is the same technology and it is absolutely 100% transparent.

Okay, I imagined that would be the case, but thought it will be best to clarify.

4. What audio interface do you use and did you face any driver problems? I am asking because my audio interface is Mac compatible, but I am not sure if the audio drivers need to be specifically Apple Silicon compatible. It's Komplete Audio 6 MK1 btw. Would it work with Mac mini M2/Pro?

5. Lastly, can I use my existing USB keyboard (generic) and mouse (G502 Hero) with a Mac?

Can't tell for sure, I don't have the same products. What I can tell you is I didn't care assuming there would be no compatibility issue and I never had any...

Good point and I think it should mostly work, but I will still do my research and see what accessories I would need to buy to factor that cost in as well.

Do you have any good and cheap recommendation for a Mac keyboard? The one Apple is selling is too expensive. For mouse, I am planning to use my existing G502 Hero, which seems Mac compatible and should work well - I can't use a traditional mouse anymore!

[sQeetz]

I kinda regret getting the Mini at the time I did... 32GB 2TB... Now that the Mac Studio came out, I could have the exact same machine for exact the same money, but the Mac Studio version of the M2 Pro chip has more graphics cores..... It is what it is.

[LoveEnigma18]

I kinda regret getting the Mini at the time I did... 32GB 2TB... Now that the Mac Studio came out, I could have the exact same machine for exact the same money, but the Mac Studio version of the M2 Pro chip has more graphics cores..... It is what it is.

I am seeing that once you start adding more memory, storage, etc. you had rather start looking at the next level of Mac. I got interested in Mac just few days ago when Mac Studio with M2 MAX/ULTRA came out and it has made the selection a little difficult when trying to configure Mac mini M2 Pro. Of course, the Studio is still very expensive, but the more cores and better cooling among other things is making me think twice.

I will have to fix my budget, that's the only way. Else the amount keeps on piling on that CTO page.

[Jac459]

Thanks a lot for your detailed reply. I appreciate it.

My pleasure, not everyday we can have a peaceful and constructive discussion on KVR haha.

Great to know this. I would certainly go for 16 GB, but I wonder if it will be future proof should I need more RAM. I am planning to go for 512 GB storage, which should allow for a high virtual memory and faster swapping, as you mentioned. Mac mini M2 Pro doesn't have 24 GB option and 32 GB is like $400 more (~ $480 locally on Apple Online store). So, that's indeed a huge cost addition. I may have to stick to 16 GB memory and 512 GB storage option.

Sorry, I don't remember how much memory I was having. What I can tell you is that I bought 1TB and now I start to regret it because after throwing everything at it I am still at ...650GB free... So I could have lived with 512GB...
But you have to note that I am not playing games, not downloading movies... basically my MBP is exclusively used for music... YMMV...

On RAM and SSD, my reasoning is 2 folds:
1 - there is very much a sweet spot on Apple offer. They have a very good (even excellent) base price compare to PC of same quality but catch you later on the options with "out of this world" prices.
2 - in modern music production, CPU is very very much used. With more and more modulations, heavy hitters like phase plant, Avenger, Diva, more complex effects. Plus I personally like to mix and master in the same projects. So basically I have full Isotope suite + fab filters plugins on every channel. That is ok for memory and ssd but in term of CPU, I don't have a ton of headroom, even if the M2 Pro is very very powerful.

So, because of these 2 facts, I prefer to buy a slightly less powerful (in SSD and RAM) device at first, and instead of changing every 5 years for example, I change every 3 or 3.5 years. It is the exact same "total cost of ownership" but overall I have much better products fitting much better my needs... With upgraded CPU, bus speed and all. I think it is a far better deal.

Could you please tell me how much free storage you have when you first got your MacBook Pro? For 512 GB I am hoping there will be about 450 GB to start with.

I would think so as I am using 347 only now after having Bitwig, Reason Studios, 70 plugins and many sample libraries like UVI World 2, 2 Quadra, few deep sampled Pianos, organs, voices pack and others...

Good point and I think it should mostly work, but I will still do my research and see what accessories I would need to buy to factor that cost in as well.

Do you have any good and cheap recommendation for a Mac keyboard? The one Apple is selling is too expensive. For mouse, I am planning to use my existing G502 Hero, which seems Mac compatible and should work well - I can't use a traditional mouse anymore!

No I don't sorry . I am an odd guy preferring to use trackpads...

[LoveEnigma18]

Thanks a lot for your detailed reply. I appreciate it.

My pleasure, not everyday we can have a peaceful and constructive discussion on KVR haha.

Yeah, you can bet on me for that though. Thanks again for further comments.

Great to know this. I would certainly go for 16 GB, but I wonder if it will be future proof should I need more RAM. I am planning to go for 512 GB storage, which should allow for a high virtual memory and faster swapping, as you mentioned. Mac mini M2 Pro doesn't have 24 GB option and 32 GB is like $400 more (~ $480 locally on Apple Online store). So, that's indeed a huge cost addition. I may have to stick to 16 GB memory and 512 GB storage option.

Sorry, I don't remember how much memory I was having. What I can tell you is that I bought 1TB and now I start to regret it because after throwing everything at it I am still at ...650GB free... So I could have lived with 512GB...
But you have to note that I am not playing games, not downloading movies... basically my MBP is exclusively used for music... YMMV...

Yeah, 512 GB should be fine indeed. Even I would use the Mac mini for only music production and maybe watching videos and usual stuff at most. I don't play games or download movies or edit videos.

On RAM and SSD, my reasoning is 2 folds:
1 - there is very much a sweet spot on Apple offer. They have a very good (even excellent) base price compare to PC of same quality but catch you later on the options with "out of this world" prices.
2 - in modern music production, CPU is very very much used. With more and more modulations, heavy hitters like phase plant, Avenger, Diva, more complex effects. Plus I personally like to mix and master in the same projects. So basically I have full Isotope suite + fab filters plugins on every channel. That is ok for memory and ssd but in term of CPU, I don't have a ton of headroom, even if the M2 Pro is very very powerful.

So, because of these 2 facts, I prefer to buy a slightly less powerful (in SSD and RAM) device at first, and instead of changing every 5 years for example, I change every 3 or 3.5 years. It is the exact same "total cost of ownership" but overall I have much better products fitting much better my needs... With upgraded CPU, bus speed and all. I think it is a far better deal.

I get your point, but my goal is that it should last at least 5-7 years, because here the Macs are a little more expensive than, for example, in the US. The difference after the currency conversion is over $250!

Could you please tell me how much free storage you have when you first got your MacBook Pro? For 512 GB I am hoping there will be about 450 GB to start with.

I would think so as I am using 347 only now after having Bitwig, Reason Studios, 70 plugins and many sample libraries like UVI World 2, 2 Quadra, few deep sampled Pianos, organs, voices pack and others...

Sounds good. What external SSD do you use? I plan to buy a couple of Samsung T7s for all the sample libraries and loops. Of course, I will use the onboard Mac storage for important and relatively less space consuming stuff like Omnisphere, Nexus, etc. apart from MacOS, FL Studio and perhaps Logic Pro and other instrument and effect plugins.

Do you have any good and cheap recommendation for a Mac keyboard? The one Apple is selling is too expensive. For mouse, I am planning to use my existing G502 Hero, which seems Mac compatible and should work well - I can't use a traditional mouse anymore!

No I don't sorry . I am an odd guy preferring to use trackpads...

Okay, but you do use a "keyboard", right? I see that the Apple make is very expensive.

[Jac459]

I get your point, but my goal is that it should last at least 5-7 years, because here the Macs are a little more expensive than, for example, in the US. The difference after the currency conversion is over $250!

I think that's a realistic approach. I was more taking if you are a geek :-p ... Actually if the emerging trend of having processing on GPU, it could even give more time...

Sounds good. What external SSD do you use? I plan to buy a couple of Samsung T7s for all the sample libraries and loops. Of course, I will use the onboard Mac storage for important and relatively less space consuming stuff like Omnisphere, Nexus, etc. apart from MacOS, FL Studio and perhaps Logic Pro and other instrument and effect plugins.

I have a rugged Sandisk Extrem 1TB, BUT I didn't use it with this machine yet and I don't think I will.
All is stored locally so far... (so within the 350gb).
I have a few large libraries, I think UVI World Suite 2 is 40GB, 2 Quadra around 12 GB, Reason Studio is 20gb, Bitwig 12GB, then I have quite a few others from UVI, smaller I guess, Soul school, various vocal samples, Avenger with a lot of expansions (vocals and guitar samples)... Various deep sampled instruments but I am not doing orchestral so I guess you may have more....

Okay, but you do use a "keyboard", right? I see that the Apple make is very expensive.

Sorry I was not clear. I don't have a Mac mini m2, I have a Mac book pro m2 with 16gb/1tb... So my keyboard is built-in. I actually do have a Mac mini m1 but I use it as a server, "headless and keyboard less". I access it remotely.

[LoveEnigma18]

I get your point, but my goal is that it should last at least 5-7 years, because here the Macs are a little more expensive than, for example, in the US. The difference after the currency conversion is over $250!

I think that's a realistic approach. I was more taking if you are a geek :-p ... Actually if the emerging trend of having processing on GPU, it could even give more time...

Sounds good. What external SSD do you use? I plan to buy a couple of Samsung T7s for all the sample libraries and loops. Of course, I will use the onboard Mac storage for important and relatively less space consuming stuff like Omnisphere, Nexus, etc. apart from MacOS, FL Studio and perhaps Logic Pro and other instrument and effect plugins.

I have a rugged Sandisk Extrem 1TB, BUT I didn't use it with this machine yet and I don't think I will.
All is stored locally so far... (so within the 350gb).
I have a few large libraries, I think UVI World Suite 2 is 40GB, 2 Quadra around 12 GB, Reason Studio is 20gb, Bitwig 12GB, then I have quite a few others from UVI, smaller I guess, Soul school, various vocal samples, Avenger with a lot of expansions (vocals and guitar samples)... Various deep sampled instruments but I am not doing orchestral so I guess you may have more....

Okay, but you do use a "keyboard", right? I see that the Apple make is very expensive.

Sorry I was not clear. I don't have a Mac mini m2, I have a Mac book pro m2 with 16gb/1tb... So my keyboard is built-in. I actually do have a Mac mini m1 but I use it as a server, "headless and keyboard less". I access it remotely.

Thank you again for your time and information.

I think with Apple you always spend more than planned, but future proofing needs some consideration as it is difficult to resell hardware stuff and I don't see Apple doing Mac exchange program in my country.

Yeah, I think 1 to 2 TB of external SSD is all what I would need, so just one SSD drive should do it.

Ah, I see. Sorry, I was assuming you had Mac mini M2. I am looking for a fixed desktop setup, so I ruled out the MacBooks. Let's see. Mac mini M2 PRO with 32 GB memory and 512 GB storage is currently on my mind. Mac Studio base version is tempting, but the difference is almost $500 where I am, which is probably overkill for me anyway I guess except for maybe the slight advantage of M2 MAX chip on the Mac Studio.

[sQeetz]

I kinda regret getting the Mini at the time I did... 32GB 2TB... Now that the Mac Studio came out, I could have the exact same machine for exact the same money, but the Mac Studio version of the M2 Pro chip has more graphics cores..... It is what it is.

I am seeing that once you start adding more memory, storage, etc. you had rather start looking at the next level of Mac. I got interested in Mac just few days ago when Mac Studio with M2 MAX/ULTRA came out and it has made the selection a little difficult when trying to configure Mac mini M2 Pro. Of course, the Studio is still very expensive, but the more cores and better cooling among other things is making me think twice.

I will have to fix my budget, that's the only way. Else the amount keeps on piling on that CTO page.

I mean... I barely scratch the maximum power the M2 Pro chip in my Mac mini delivers. But if I was to buy a new computer today, I would buy a Mac Studio. Specially since the DirectX12 translation has been announced. Hope game developers take advantage of it...

[PAK]

Since I don't think anyone mentioned it - Check Apple's refurbished systems for your region. It's possible to get a base config M1 Studio Max for $/£1500 direct from Apple. With 32GB and 8 performance cores (The Mini's M2 Pro defaults to 6 cores without a paid upgrade) it's likely a better choice for your needs..

Depending on your region you will have to check daily, sometimes over a period of many weeks, to get the config you want, and they will often disappear quickly when available (within a few hours). The base M1 Ultras are also £/$3200 via that route for those who might be interested.

As I've said before, and will say again, if you're not hurting to upgrade WAIT. Whilst there's always something better on the horizon, M3 is highly likely to be a better "time" to buy, especially if you're looking at things from an "I want at least 7 years out of this" angle. The Studio range will maybe have to wait until this time next year for M3, though it's expected they'll launch iMac's/Laptops with M3 at the end of the year, and they should give an earlier confirmation of expected performance.

Just about any keyboard / mouse combo will work fine as they're USB class compliant. If you want support for specific fancy features then obviously you'll need to check for software, but names like Logitech tend to support the latest Mac OS if they still sell / recently sold a product..

For audio devices USB class compliant stuff should work without drivers. If you need a new audio device the Presonus Thunderbolt ones offer really good value for money..

[LoveEnigma18]

I kinda regret getting the Mini at the time I did... 32GB 2TB... Now that the Mac Studio came out, I could have the exact same machine for exact the same money, but the Mac Studio version of the M2 Pro chip has more graphics cores..... It is what it is.

I am seeing that once you start adding more memory, storage, etc. you had rather start looking at the next level of Mac. I got interested in Mac just few days ago when Mac Studio with M2 MAX/ULTRA came out and it has made the selection a little difficult when trying to configure Mac mini M2 Pro. Of course, the Studio is still very expensive, but the more cores and better cooling among other things is making me think twice.

I will have to fix my budget, that's the only way. Else the amount keeps on piling on that CTO page.

I mean... I barely scratch the maximum power the M2 Pro chip in my Mac mini delivers. But if I was to buy a new computer today, I would buy a Mac Studio. Specially since the DirectX12 translation has been announced. Hope game developers take advantage of it...

I get it, but Mac Studio is probably a little overkill for me since the additional benefits it offers over Mac mini M2 Pro may not be that significant (I guess) for music production, except for marginal benefit of 2 higher core counts. I don't play games or do video/image editing.

Mac mini is a little more compact too, which is nice. I would love to buy a Mac Studio, but it is almost $500 costlier where I live and I could rather spend that money towards all the accessories that I may need to buy.

[LoveEnigma18]

Since I don't think anyone mentioned it - Check Apple's refurbished systems for your region. It's possible to get a base config M1 Studio Max for $/£1500 direct from Apple. With 32GB and 8 performance cores (The Mini's M2 Pro defaults to 6 cores without a paid upgrade) it's likely a better choice for your needs..

Depending on your region you will have to check daily, sometimes over a period of many weeks, to get the config you want, and they will often disappear quickly when available (within a few hours). The base M1 Ultras are also £/$3200 via that route for those who might be interested.

As I've said before, and will say again, if you're not hurting to upgrade WAIT. Whilst there's always something better on the horizon, M3 is highly likely to be a better "time" to buy, especially if you're looking at things from an "I want at least 7 years out of this" angle. The Studio range will maybe have to wait until this time next year for M3, though it's expected they'll launch iMac's/Laptops with M3 at the end of the year, and they should give an earlier confirmation of expected performance.

Just about any keyboard / mouse combo will work fine as they're USB class compliant. If you want support for specific fancy features then obviously you'll need to check for software, but names like Logitech tend to support the latest Mac OS if they still sell / recently sold a product..

For audio devices USB class compliant stuff should work without drivers. If you need a new audio device the Presonus Thunderbolt ones offer really good value for money..

Thanks for your suggestions.

I am unable to find refurbished Macs where I live, so that's not an option for me. Also, I would be a PC switcher and this would be the first Mac ever for me, so I got to start somewhere. I am not upgrading, fyi. And I would also like it more to buy my first Mac ever new rather than a refurbished one.

I could wait for M3 as they will be based on 3nm and probably offer better performance (and we might see at least a MacBook with M3 this fall as you say), but it might take another year for me to buy Mac mini or Studio with M3 and we don't know what configurations Apple will allow and they will likely be a little more expensive. So, in the meantime, if I were to buy Mac mini M2 Pro right now, for example, I would be ahead with my Mac, MacOS and Logic Pro learning curve by the time M3 arrives. Also, there is a good no cost EMI offer going on, which makes current Mac mini a little more affordable. I hope even Mac mini M2 Pro should last me at least 5 years.

Regarding keyboard and mouse, yes, I was a little concerned about software for mouse, but I checked that my Logitech mouse software supports MacOS. I might need to get a new keyboard since Mac has a couple different keys, but I don't need fancy functions for the keyboard. I would appreciate any recommendation other than Apple ones, which are expensive.

For audio interfaces, I just read here that my Komplete Audio 6 MK1 will work fine, so that's good to know. I will keep your Presonus Thunderbolt recommendation in mind though.

https://support.native-instruments.com/ ... ility-News

[sQeetz]

I could wait for M3 as they will be based on 3nm and probably offer better performance (and we might see at least a MacBook with M3 this fall as you say),

If you have the time/patience that's what I would also do

[PAK]

I am unable to find refurbished Macs where I live, so that's not an option for me

Is there an official Apple retail presence (Apple Stores) in your country? I'd rethink going the Apple route without this, given limited repair options outside of Apple. At the opposite end, of any repair concerns, Applecare is ~$50/yr for a base Mac Studio Max/Mini M2 Pro. Probably worth it for those who worry..

I would also like it more to buy my first Mac ever new rather than a refurbished one.

That's fair enough, though they have full warranties. BTW Outside of Apple themselves refurbs require major caution and I would not recommend going that route. Apple refurbs, however, tend to be "like new".

I hope even Mac mini M2 Pro should last me at least 5 years.

There's a lot of variables in there. Whilst Mac OS tends to manage resources well (to the point where it can swap stuff in and out of memory without someone necessarily noticing), it won't distort space-time. If your host uses more than 16GB on Windows it's likely to need that on Mac OS too.

To put it in PC terms - if you think a 12500K would get you to 2028 then the same is likely to apply with M2 Pro. If you're hoping for something more towards 13900k DAW performance then this would require the Ultra (Which still falls short, though not to the degree some might like to imply.. AKA "muh Cinebench")

M3 isn't just about the 40% size reduction (Which enables them to fit more cores in the same package space). It's Apple's first proper opportunity to refine the M1 design. To use Intel's terms - you're getting both the "tic" and the "toc" in a single generation. Though how much Apple push this, on the desktop side, remains to be seen..

[sQeetz]

M3 isn't just about the 40% size reduction (Which enables them to fit more cores in the same package space). It's Apple's first proper opportunity to refine the M1 design. To use Intel's terms - you're getting both the "tic" and the "toc" in a single generation. Though how much Apple push this, on the desktop side, remains to be seen..

I've got both TICS (M1 MacBook and M2 Pro Mini).... whenever I'm in for an update, they'll be several TOCs away anyway....