KVR Audio

whyterabbyt · Post by **whyterabbyt** » Mon Dec 20, 2004 12:50 pm

BONES quoth
Are you f**king serious!?! I got an nForce3-250 and nothing but my Edirol shows up in the ASIO list. I wasn't expecting anything so maybe I need to fiddle a bit since I installed the Edirol and disabled the on-board audio before I did anything else.

What's the problem? You dont believe him? If you turn off onboard audio, the driver installer aint gonna install drivers for the onboard audio. Its not there; the device is disabled.

cron · Post by **cron** » Mon Dec 20, 2004 12:56 pm

Whichever one you start off on is the one you're going to like using best. Neither is easier than the other. I've used PCs for years, but stick me in front of one of the Macs at uni and I'm suddenly like your dad who doesn't know how to close a window.

On a slightly more biased note, may I just say that whoever decided that pressing control + left click on a Mac was an ergonomically viable equivalent to the PCs right click is a f**king moron.

Sascha Franck · Post by **Sascha Franck** » Mon Dec 20, 2004 1:31 pm

cron wrote: On a slightly more biased note, may I just say that whoever decided that pressing control + left click on a Mac was an ergonomically viable equivalent to the PCs right click is a f**king moron.

Well, OSX now supports rightclicks natively... just that it took some decades for them to realize it could be useful. And just that you still only get a laughable one-button mouse with a Mac.
There must be THOUSANDS of them wasting space - I just don't know a single person who'd use a one button mouse.

BONES · Post by **BONES** » Mon Dec 20, 2004 1:44 pm

whyterabbyt wrote:If you turn off onboard audio, the driver installer aint gonna install drivers for the onboard audio. Its not there; the device is disabled.

I didn't actually disable the drivers, I just set the audio settings in Control Panel to make the Edirol the default for everything, effectively taking the on-board audio out of the loop.

cron · Post by **cron** » Mon Dec 20, 2004 1:45 pm

Sascha Franck wrote:
cron wrote: On a slightly more biased note, may I just say that whoever decided that pressing control + left click on a Mac was an ergonomically viable equivalent to the PCs right click is a f**king moron.
Well, OSX now supports rightclicks natively... just that it took some decades for them to realize it could be useful. And just that you still only get a laughable one-button mouse with a Mac.
There must be THOUSANDS of them wasting space - I just don't know a single person who'd use a one button mouse.

Good to know. Maybe I can harrass my tutors into buying some 2 button mice for the OSX machines in the department. Will certainly make using things like MAX/MSP easier.

tetraplan · Post by **tetraplan** » Mon Dec 20, 2004 2:33 pm

Sascha Franck wrote:Well, OSX now supports rightclicks natively... just that it took some decades for them to realize it could be useful. And just that you still only get a laughable one-button mouse with a Mac.

I think this NIH-syndrome is one of Apples biggest problems.
Anyway, for more functionality there's always Logitech's Mouseware for OSX. Not on the CD but downloadable.

Groet, Erik

jones-y · Post by **jones-y** » Mon Dec 20, 2004 3:04 pm

cesjr wrote:Yea, but what about all the people that do use it?

If they find value in it, then its good for them to get it bundled with the machine. Not free, mind you, but bundled.

Is your situation the only valid one,

Huh?

so when we discuss the relative value of a mac and pc for music authoring, we should just ignore Garageband (free) and Logic Pro (999) with all those instruments and plugs and loops?

Garage band isn't free. Its the last time I'll say it.

When choosing your platform, availability of the software you want or need to use is one of the deciding factors. Extra stuff that's bundled (not for free, mind you, you're still paying for it and if you're paying for it and not using it, guess what?.....) is only of value if you use it. So it can only be judged on an individual basis. Meaning, what's good for the goose, may suck for the gander.

There's also an advantage to having a set of quality instruments and effects included, that every other user also has. Namely, people can make presets and midi loops (where you can change the instrument). When you have Traktion and a bunch of free plugs, you can't do that because there's no way to be sure everyone has the same set of plugs.

Third parties can't currently create MIDI based Apple Loops. Only Apple can, as of right now. As for the presets thing, yes that's valid, but I don't think it adds any weight to your position.

So the advantage, then, is facilitation of collaboration? I doubt Apple is thinking that way. Else they would've continued the PC version of Logic.

whyterabbyt · Post by **whyterabbyt** » Mon Dec 20, 2004 3:08 pm

BONES quoth
I didn't actually disable the drivers, I just set the audio settings in Control Panel to make the Edirol the default for everything, effectively taking the on-board audio out of the loop.

Right, I see. If you didnt see anything for the onboard audio, then its possible it isnt enabled by the BIOS by default....

BONES · Post by **BONES** » Tue Dec 21, 2004 2:37 am

Yes, its enabled but it still doesn't show up. BTW, is that you in your sig? Get a f**king haircut, you hippy lout!

cesjr · Post by **cesjr** » Tue Dec 21, 2004 3:29 am

mjones4th wrote:
cesjr wrote:Yea, but what about all the people that do use it?
If they find value in it, then its good for them to get it bundled with the machine. Not free, mind you, but bundled.

Is your situation the only valid one,
Huh?

so when we discuss the relative value of a mac and pc for music authoring, we should just ignore Garageband (free) and Logic Pro (999) with all those instruments and plugs and loops?
Garage band isn't free. Its the last time I'll say it.

When choosing your platform, availability of the software you want or need to use is one of the deciding factors. Extra stuff that's bundled (not for free, mind you, you're still paying for it and if you're paying for it and not using it, guess what?.....) is only of value if you use it. So it can only be judged on an individual basis. Meaning, what's good for the goose, may suck for the gander.

There's also an advantage to having a set of quality instruments and effects included, that every other user also has. Namely, people can make presets and midi loops (where you can change the instrument). When you have Traktion and a bunch of free plugs, you can't do that because there's no way to be sure everyone has the same set of plugs.

Third parties can't currently create MIDI based Apple Loops. Only Apple can, as of right now. As for the presets thing, yes that's valid, but I don't think it adds any weight to your position.

So the advantage, then, is facilitation of collaboration? I doubt Apple is thinking that way. Else they would've continued the PC version of Logic.

It doesn't matter why apple put in presets, or whether collaboration would be greater if there was a windows version of Logic. Apple put in lots of built in instruments which allows people to create presets that everyone can use. Which you can't do with Traktion unless everyone has the same set of plugs installed all the time (not).

As for midi loops, the point is that without a good set of built-in synths and sounds, you can't have them. Traktion doesn't have a good set (or any set, really) of built-in sounds and synths. Therefore, as a direct result, it can't have a library of loops where you can keep the notes but change the sound, like the many apple midi loops (included with Garageband and in the Jam Packs) And there's little to no prospect of Traktion obtaining such loops, because, again, it has little built-in sound generation. While Garageband has a lot.

Your focus on "free" versus bundled is semantics. We all know what I'm saying - you don't have to outlay additional cash to get Garageband. YOu know, like you have to outlay $300 to get Reason. There's no confusion here, so why the semantics?

jones-y · Post by **jones-y** » Tue Dec 21, 2004 3:07 pm

No semantics. The fact is "I" DO have to outlay additional cash if I want Garage Band. Either $50 for iLife, or $1500 for a new Powermac.

And I don't understand how you missed that. I've repeated it several times? What's semantic about that?

Additionally, bundled doesn't mean free, it means the price of the bundled item is rolled into the total cost of the package. M-Audio bundles Reason. Don't you think the Props get a cut for that? I'm willing to bet that cut ain't coming out of M-Audio's pocket, but rather the end user's. That's the way it works.

As for preset sharing. I see your point, but again, I don't see a huge benefit. I can come here, or go to patcharena to get presets created by other users of a particular synth.

As for MIDI based Apple loops, fantastic idea. Great benefit. I see huge potential. But. The included one suck. Third parties cannot currently create them. So we're stuck with the sucky ones. Once that changes, MIDI based Apple loops will be something special.

Plugin Limit on Mac vs PC