KVR Audio

alriley · Post by **alriley** » Sun Dec 19, 2004 9:59 pm

Hi,

I've just started working seriously with vocals and it's got me thinking how exactly do producers manage to give vocalists their trademark sound. Obviously a lot comes from the performer's unique vocal tone but it seems to me like they stick with the same effects for each vocalist.

Some hip-hop examples: how to achieve Nelly's distinctive sound? Is it chorusing or layered takes? Or something else? What about Dr. Dre, and Coolio on Gangster's Paradise?

I'd thought of some others but can't remember them now.

Also, i'm not really into pop, but have you heard the vocal effect at the end of Kylie's new single ("I Believe")? Is that formant shifting or is it something else? I tried formant shifting with a free plug-in but couldn't get anything that sounded much like it.

Just thought this might be a good thread to start so people could swap tips and ask questions about creative vocal production techniques.

Thanks,

Al

original flipper · Post by **original flipper** » Sun Dec 19, 2004 10:10 pm

HI

One thing that you might be surprised to hear is the amount of layers that a vocal track might have, I recently saw a track that had a dozen 'layers', these varied from the main lead vox, harmony, ad libs, naturally pitched up and down takes, ghost takes (basically the same as the main vox but at a lower level and used to add width IE heavy pan right), heavily effected ghost (vocoded/chorused or whatever) and so forth.

Much mainstream popular/dance vocals will be layered and effected to enhance and add power, in R&B you will also get a lot of harmonies working around the main vocal.

For some styles this might be totally at odds with the feel you are trying to create.

Flipper.

soulata · Post by **soulata** » Sun Dec 19, 2004 11:28 pm

original flipper wrote:...in R&B you will also get a lot of harmonies working around the main vocal.

for instance D'Angelo or Angie Stone. Shitloads of vocals all around the main one.

Tried to transcribe some of it, oh well.*

k

*Terence Blanchard did some really cool brass arrangements on Voodoo

Emerald Tablet · Post by **Emerald Tablet** » Mon Dec 20, 2004 2:01 pm

had a guy for a visit - he wanted to sing
his voice was very thin
i tried to fatten it up using a slight detune
i tried to fatten it up using eq
i tried to fatten it up using compression
i tried to make it louder by limiting and normalising
i tried to give it more presence by applying pseudo stereo
i tried to make it more full by applying reverb
i tried to make it melt in the mix by applying delay
i tried - i failed. his name was George Michael

had a guy for a visit - he wanted to be a rapper
his voice was fat - recorded it with a sure sm58 - applied no effects
it was just a perfect mono dry signal standing firm in the middle of the mix
he called himself guru

Karen-K · Post by **Karen-K** » Mon Dec 20, 2004 2:29 pm

I know one or two methods to get a "fat / pro" sound:
- First the one that every one knows is "phil spector layer style" in wich you have to record the same voice over and over; then youdon't have to apply chorus or detune 'cause the little variations of the singer's voice will do the job.Also you'll have to overdub/loop record a lot, make choirs that follow the harmony in gost mode (you can ear them but you don't listen to them....lil' differences

).last but not least use a good mic

-Second is to use loads of plugins like waves ultra pitch (6 or 3), cloneboy or tools like those to get a "fat" sound effect/ you can also use harmonizer (TC, beringher etc..) to get pro soundin' vocals. IMO the best way to get pro vocals is to pay attention to the way you record and on what you record; you'll always get better results recording on a samson preamp + mxl than a Soundblaster + SM58....
reverb is also a good key o get pro vocals....here you have to choose the one you like (BTW don't use too much delay/echos on the main voal line).
These are basic tricks you 'll have to experience hi-pass filter, de-esser, compressor to finalize a vocal part
Hope it will help you
Kisses
Karen

C00kie · Post by **C00kie** » Mon Dec 20, 2004 3:10 pm

Karen-K wrote:you'll always get better results recording on a samson preamp + mxl than a Soundblaster + SM58....

I used to get very decent results with my SM58 plugged into a SoundBlaster (well, with a Mackie 1604 VLZ-Pro in between ofcourse

since you can't do it without a half-decent preamp)

zeoy · Post by **zeoy** » Mon Dec 20, 2004 3:25 pm

I used to get very decent results with my SM58

... I use the 57

C00kie · Post by **C00kie** » Mon Dec 20, 2004 3:28 pm

zeoy wrote:
my SM58
... I use the 57

... so less is more ??

Emerald Tablet · Post by **Emerald Tablet** » Mon Dec 20, 2004 3:33 pm

C00kie wrote:
zeoy wrote:
my SM58
... I use the 57
... so less is more ??

nah try this mega oversensitive condensator mics
overdrive the by sounds and call it glitch.

jones-y · Post by **jones-y** » Mon Dec 20, 2004 3:33 pm

alriley wrote: Some hip-hop examples: how to achieve Nelly's distinctive sound? Is it chorusing or layered takes? Or something else? What about Dr. Dre, and Coolio on Gangster's Paradise?

Nelly double-tracks everything, IIRC.

A large portion of it has to do with artist talent, as you allude to, but another significant chunk of it is the equipment he/she is singing into.

Acoustically treated mic booths, and boutique preamps, mics, and outboard compressors, do really make a world of difference. I've heard it myself, where a vocal I recorded in my basement (with an AT3035 and a Bellari RP-220) were absolutely crushed by the same vocalist singing the same song in a better equipped facility (UA 2-610 preamp, UA 1176 compressor and I believe a Rode mic).

And once you have an excellently recorded vocal, applying more effects to polish it off is child's play, provided you have half an ear. OTOH, trying to fix a poor or mediocre vocal recording in the mix is a total headache, and often, results in only marginally better sound.

wrench45us · Post by **wrench45us** » Mon Dec 20, 2004 3:36 pm

anybody off hand know what John Lennon did for his vocals on 'Double Fantasy'

how many layers and reverbs
i've heard he didn't think too much of the sound of his voice and used considerable double tracking.
it's not subtle at all, but i've always liked that production

zeoy · Post by **zeoy** » Mon Dec 20, 2004 3:39 pm

Let's not hijack this thread , but I once recorded vocals with my Beta 57A->Audio Buddy-> Audiophile in my apartment (no special room treatment) and the results were very nice. Just a mono chanel with a touch of reverb. ... but the singer has a really good voice. Same singer, same track in a semi-pro studio with a Neumann U-87 but with a newbie behind the desk and the results were similar.
So maybe less is more ( of course I 'd trade my 57 with the 87 anytime

)

zeoy · Post by **zeoy** » Mon Dec 20, 2004 3:42 pm

emerald tablet wrote:

nah try this mega oversensitive condensator mics
overdrive the by sounds and call it glitch.

Jokes aside the 57 has a fantastic overdrive. CHeck it with voice or especially with harmonica (blues etc.)

Emerald Tablet · Post by **Emerald Tablet** » Mon Dec 20, 2004 3:51 pm

mic technique / recording technique / vocal quality / used mic / used effects

all totally subordinate to how the artist uses his / her voice
you think Gladys knight sounds so cool because of the timbre of her voice
for a small deal perhaps your right but it's how she uses her voice what makes the definitive difference

you don't even need daft techniques to make her sound cool - she just does.
leave her dry in the mix with a clean mono signal from a cheap mic
it will still sound cool. sometimes even damaging the signal could make it sound cooler

i ones won a kvr contest in a time i didn't have a pre amp / used one of the cheapest mics around
plugged it directly into my cheap onboard soundcard. it sounded thin but still the vocal
performance was the vocal performance. later i recorded worse vocals and recorded them properly
it were still useless recordings as good as the applied effects were.

sleek wrote some secrets on recording a vocal and one of them is very very very true
make your home in the mood you want to sing. Take the time to led a thousand candles if it helps you
this will be felt ! not if you used whatever pre amp or microphone

Pouckypluysch · Post by **Pouckypluysch** » Mon Dec 20, 2004 3:52 pm

when you make vocal arrangements the r'n'b-way as suggested above, you easily get a sound that will sound overproduced in some music.

What I find strange, is that when I record a lead vocal track, all the compressors and limiters and loudness maximizers don't get anywhere near the volume boost as when I simply duplicate the vocal track. It is usually enough for me.

Vocal Production of the Stars