KVR Audio

PanRaubichForever · Post by **PanRaubichForever** » Sat Jun 24, 2023 6:12 pm

Does anyone have an informed opinion on the sound?

dlandis · Post by **dlandis** » Sat Jun 24, 2023 7:04 pm

PanRaubichForever wrote: Sat Jun 24, 2023 6:12 pm Does anyone have an informed opinion on the sound?

I have LuSH-101 and the demo (and I am definitely upgrading; I was very impressed with the original and feel that the upgrade price is very fair. I appreciate the GUI scaling very much (I use a 32" monitor at 3840x2160 resolution,) find the browser more straight-forward, and like the options for skins. Moreover, there is an improvement in the sound, but it can't be said to be "monumental" because the original hardware LuSH-101 was at the very top of its class when it came out and has stood the test of time and sonic improvements some other companies have made in catching up. I still continue to use the original, though I got it when it first came out. But, yes, the sound quality is better and seems more detailed, "pearly," if you will, also, the output of Lush 2 is hotter (note the main volume knob compared to the original on identical patches; it is set inevitably a few clicks lower.) I'm not able to compare it to the original SH-101 as I never owned that, but I have loved the plug-in since it first arrived. I will be upgrading this week. I'm not sure of the complaints; one part of me thinks that perhaps this plug-in sounds so good that maybe a few have forgotten that it does fit into the emulation category (and, so, should be looked at from within its generous paradigm for emulation.) Another part of me wonders if some haven't DLed the demo and, hence, haven't noticed the sound difference. For me, $45 is a very fair price to pay for those details I thought should be addressed to have done been implemented. As I've used it often in the past, I think this is very fair.

seangm · Post by **seangm** » Sat Jun 24, 2023 7:56 pm

dlandis wrote: Sat Jun 24, 2023 7:04 pm
PanRaubichForever wrote: Sat Jun 24, 2023 6:12 pm Does anyone have an informed opinion on the sound?
I have LuSH-101 and the demo (and I am definitely upgrading; I was very impressed with the original and fell that the upgrade price is very fair. I appreciate the GUI scaling very much (I use a 32" monitor at 3840x2160 resolution,) find the browser more straight-forward, and like the options for skins. Moreover, there is an improvement in the sound, but it can't be said to be "monumental" because the original LuSH-101 was at the very top of its class when it came out and has stood the test of time and sonic improvements some other companies have made in catching up. I still continue to use the original, though I got it when it first came out. But, yes, the sound quality is better and seems more detailed, "pearly," if you will. I'm not able to compare it to the original SH-101 as I never owned that, but I have loved the plug-in since it first arrived. I will be upgrading this week. I'm not sure of the complaints; one part of me thinks that perhaps this plug-in sounds so good that maybe a few have forgotten that it does fit into the emulation category (and, so, should be looked at from within its generous paradigm for emulation.) Another part of me wonders if some haven't DLed the demo and, hence, haven't noticed the sound difference. For me, $45 is a very fair price to pay for those details I thought should be addressed to have done been implemented. As I've used it often in the past, I think this is very fair.

Yeah I'm not a sound designer or anything but I really like the sound of V2, it's just creamy and warm (ok I'm not great with adjectives). I liked V1 also but V2 sounds even better.

mholloway · Post by **mholloway** » Sat Jun 24, 2023 9:05 pm

Genuine question, is there any _actual_ reason to believe the V2 "sounds better" -- e.g. notes on the thing actually being updated in regards to the literal sounds it makes?

Or is this just V2 supporters "feeling" that is sounds better, which is often just the rose-tinted-ears of New Plugin output...if there's anything from Sebastian / D16 regarding time and energy going into the emulation of the SH-101 itself, analog circuitry-emulation re-hauling, etc, well then maybe there's something to it. But so far all I've seen is folks saying "it sounds better" which is of course meaningless on its own terms.

The original sounded very, very good imho, I'm honestly not even sure how you 'improve' it....

zvenx · Post by **zvenx** » Sat Jun 24, 2023 9:16 pm

Truthfully I had planned to do an v1 vs vs 2 and post it here to see if blindly people could tell, then I forgot, then I got busy then....
I can tell you why it 'sounds better' to me

... I always had issues with cpu playing v1 on my computers, whereas I can play v2 on both my mac and pc easily... so it is an actual sound vs crack and pop...
When I get back to my studios I will attempt to do a v1 vs v2 testing.. or of course now that it is out, anyone else can do it.
rsp

dlandis · Post by **dlandis** » Sat Jun 24, 2023 9:54 pm

dlandis · Post by **dlandis** » Sat Jun 24, 2023 9:59 pm

mholloway wrote: Sat Jun 24, 2023 9:05 pm Genuine question, is there any _actual_ reason to believe the V2 "sounds better" -- e.g. notes on the thing actually being updated in regards to the literal sounds it makes?

Or is this just V2 supporters "feeling" that is sounds better, which is often just the rose-tinted-ears of New Plugin output...if there's anything from Sebastian / D16 regarding time and energy going into the emulation of the SH-101 itself, analog circuitry-emulation re-hauling, etc, well then maybe there's something to it. But so far all I've seen is folks saying "it sounds better" which is of course meaningless on its own terms.

The original sounded very, very good imho, I'm honestly not even sure how you 'improve' it....

Fair question.

From an article on _Synth Anatomy_:

(BOQ)

According to the developers, the new LUSH-2 features new oscillator and filter algorithms promising better quality and greater detail in the emulation. For example, the oscillators will work without aliasing and even vibrato or pitch bend data will not affect their quality.

(EOQ)

But, perhaps, you should do your own evaluation (if you haven't already.). After all, regardless of any "feelings," pro or con, you may have regarding the validity of someone else's opinion or the comment above, your own opinion, of course, will be all with which you have to live at the end of the day.

Of course, I couldn't agree with you more that the first LuSH-101 sounded "very, very good" and noted as much. Could it be improved? In my somewhat subjective opinion, perhaps not worth that much for some, apparently "yes." It may work out to be a situation where both versions continue to be used (for those of us who own both,) but if that's so, it's difficult to see where that's a bad thing.

I can relate this to a previous experience: when Lounge Lizard 3 (and likewise Pianoteq 7) were released, I wasn't sure that there could be much improvement. When LL4 (and Pianoteq 8 ) arrived, at first, I wasn't entirely sure I liked the differences in sound. They were there for sure, though comparatively subtle, but they took a while to grow on me. Now, there's no way I'd choose LL3 over LL4 (or Pianoteq 7 over 8.) I think I can compare the differences between LuSH-101 and Lush 2 similarly (though I definitely warmed up to Lush 2 a bit quicker.)

Offered in the spirit of FWIW. YMMV.

egbert101 · Post by **egbert101** » Sat Jun 24, 2023 10:41 pm

Sounds better? or perhaps sounds butter? And no I can't tell the difference between 1 or 2.

dlandis · Post by **dlandis** » Sat Jun 24, 2023 11:46 pm

egbert101 wrote: Sat Jun 24, 2023 10:41 pm Sounds better? or perhaps sounds butter? And no I can't tell the difference between 1 or 2.

I am assuming that you're using the YouTube vids only by way of illustration and that you've compared the original and second versions on your computer as well. Remember, when you do this, to set the volume knobs the same as it seems that the Lush 2's output is naturally and significantly hotter.

DrGonzo · Post by **DrGonzo** » Sun Jun 25, 2023 4:23 am

Any synth that supports layers has to be supported. That's one of the coolest features ever.

DrGonzo · Post by **DrGonzo** » Sun Jun 25, 2023 6:54 am

PanRaubichForever wrote: Sat Jun 24, 2023 6:12 pm Does anyone have an informed opinion on the sound?

Another fan here. Very impressed by the quality and the presets. Two thumbs up.

kmonkey · Post by **kmonkey** » Sun Jun 25, 2023 9:10 am

Exactly my thoughts. Well worth the upgrade. I am still trying to understand if it sounds better or if I am impressed with the sound design but keep in mind that the original already sounded amazing, to begin with.

I think it's well worth the upgrade but your financial situation may be different. I suggest you download and try it yourself, That is free for 30 days, a fully functional demo.

PanRaubichForever · Post by **PanRaubichForever** » Sun Jun 25, 2023 3:12 pm

Thanks for your replies! I have downloaded the demo and I have my own informed opinion, I just wanted to hear other people informed opinions as well

It seems to me that Lush 2 sound is more on the softer side of the VA sound spectrum, meaning it's more gentle and polite, if compared to, say, Obsession or Repro-1, or even TAL Bassline 101. I guess that's determined mostly by the filter. I wonder if you agree with this or, if not, how would you describe the overall sound character?

egbert101 · Post by **egbert101** » Sun Jun 25, 2023 5:22 pm

If you want the Sequential Prophet sound, then go for a Prophet emulation, if you want the Roland SH-101 sound then, you know. What makes Lush so 'Lush' I guess is the eight layers, which was also in version 1. You have to be really into your sound design to make use of it though. Also, perhaps there is an improvement in FX for version 2? Maybe that's what you're hearing? A basic SH-101 is still pretty basic, although I personally like the sound.

mholloway · Post by **mholloway** » Sun Jun 25, 2023 5:45 pm

I've used LuSH-101 for 8+ years, programming numerous sounds from scratch, and I think I used the 'layers' like....two or three times. I never really cared about that aspect of it, tbh. but if others do, great! it's just not interesting to me, and I hate feeling like I have to program a patch 'twice' (or more) to get the final sound... when I want layers, I just stack instruments in Ableton's racks so I can easily process each individually, but have them triggered by the same incoming MIDI.

The draw for me to Lush was always 1. the UI (yes, I really genuinely like it and find it very, very easy to work with) and 2. the sound quality (every bit as good as my other fav, Diva) and 3. the timing of the envelopes. This one is very particular and I realize people's mileage will vary, but for me, the timing of the envs is just _perfectly dialed in_. With Diva, for example, I'm constantly futzing around with the envelopes to get just the right amount of decay for a pluck, or just the right amount of release for a pad, or just -- you get it. It's never immediate, it's always an effort. Whereas with LuSH, I dunno what he figured out, but they are PERFECT, at least in terms of the expectations of my brain for envelope timing (notably I also love the timing of Softube's 101 emulation envelope, so this very well may be something about the original SH-101 itself). I can always hit the sweet spot, whether I'm modulating cutoff or ampitude, the shape I want is right there.

I've been hard on this V2 but I'll give it another go and see if I can come around to it, given how much I love the original.

d16 Group LUSH-2 coming in June 2023