Ableton Push 3 - standalone MPE controller

[drez]

My belief is that the majority of the users out there are using the push like this guy is.

That might be because the device is not conducive to other workflows. So of course it then self selects.

That doesn't mean it's broken or needs to do something it's not designed for. Cars and semi trucks are both automobiles, but serve different purposes. Different workflows. Both effective.

[elxsound]

Here’s a link to better understand WHY Push was designed: https://musictech.com/features/intervie ... generation

It might cause more rage, but maybe it’ll help?

No one questions why it was made. Without the computer, the controller only version is great, I will probably pick one up one of these days. The question is why would even the designer admit the standalone is limited as of now?

“We hear it a lot,” he says. “There’s certainly work we need to do so that you can easily put together at least the sketch of a song. You’re never gonna get into the details of how you fade and automate in an Arrangement View on a monitor screen. But can we get to a place that’s closer to that? I hope so yeah, for sure. We hear that request loud and clear.”

Sounds like there are already alphas of a basic arrangement for Push 3 standalone. Anyway, you have to get it by now, they released it early, maybe to iron out any bugs before some way to write a whole composition on it was added? who knows? One thing is clear, even the developers know it's a legit request, and folks getting ticked off at people complaining about the lack of Follow Actions and Arrangement etc. on standalone will be the same people saying how much better it is than all the rest etc. There are always loyalists and critics.

I don’t care if anyone asked specifically “why was it made.” I shared it because I felt it was relevant even if you don’t. I still think it was relevant based on the responses including the developer acknowledging limitations.

As for the loyalty bit… I don’t think that’s what is happening here, at least not in this thread.

I think everyone is in agreement with what it is capable of doing today (something you keep pointing out that is should be evaluated for) and mostly you harping on how much better other devices are because Push doesn’t have an arrangement view. It’s pretty much an argument of 1.

I absolutely think everyone who has a Push 3 Standalone (myself included) will be thrilled with whatever they come up with. It’s not about loyalty… It’s just a matter of why the hell would I not be happy with more features available?

Yes, absolutely Push 3 is limited compared to what Ableton Live is. Push 3 Standalone is basically Push 2, untethered from the computer (plus added features with improved pads, MPE, audio interface and UI improvements).

I strongly doubt anyone will argue that this isn’t true.

Still, to have the option to perform without needing a laptop, IMO, is amazing. I don’t perform, but as someone who has performed (drums/percusssion) carrying less is f**king amazing. Less setup, less possibilities for shit to go wrong and the icing on top is less things to pack-up. Packing up is the worst.

For me, I am using this in bed, on the couch and as a controller (like Push 2) when needed. I can record (modular, other synths and I’ve added a couple mics just for Push) directly to Push and I don’t need to limit this to working in 2 bars/4 bars or 8 bars. I can just record as needed and its suiting my needs for now… But hell yeah I will be happy when more missing features are added (there’s quite a few) and when Standalone becomes more independent from Live and I will be thrilled when there’s an option for sketching things out whether that’s song mode or a basic arrangement view.

[elxsound]

My belief is that the majority of the users out there are using the push like this guy is.

That might be because the device is not conducive to other workflows. So of course it then self selects.

Isn’t that true for anything?

[elxsound]

My belief is that the majority of the users out there are using the push like this guy is.

That might be because the device is not conducive to other workflows. So of course it then self selects.

That doesn't mean it's broken or needs to do something it's not designed for. Cars and semi trucks are both automobiles, but serve different purposes. Different workflows. Both effective.

And I thinks that what I was getting at too…. You can name any instrument, sport, venue, vehicle type, pretty much anything that can be used and say absolutely the same thing.

[drez]

Why isn't everybody still driving these around?

[pdxindy]

My belief is that the majority of the users out there are using the push like this guy is.

That might be because the device is not conducive to other workflows. So of course it then self selects.

Isn’t that true for anything?

They were making a point about the type of user using it as justification for why it doesn't have song mode, etc. I was just pointing out the circular nature of that argument.

[elxsound]

My belief is that the majority of the users out there are using the push like this guy is.

That might be because the device is not conducive to other workflows. So of course it then self selects.

Isn’t that true for anything?

They were making a point about the type of user using it as justification for why it doesn't have song mode, etc. I was just pointing out the circular nature of that argument.

But isn’t that just reinforcing his argument and the argument of why it was released without it? I mean, its sold out on back-order.

Just be clear I don’t think its worth arguing because I don’t think there’s anything to actually argue.

It’s not there now.

For some it’s useable as is.

For some it’s not useable as is.

At this point, it seems everyone is in agreement something will be added later. Nobody knows what exactly that will be.

I don’t see anyone trying to convince someone else they should buy something they don’t want.

[pdxindy]

They were making a point about the type of user using it as justification for why it doesn't have song mode, etc. I was just pointing out the circular nature of that argument.

But isn’t that just reinforcing his argument and the argument of why it was released without it?

No, it isn't

[Double Tap]

They obviously weren’t set up to handle the amount of returns they’re dealing with

Curious to know more about this - is there a news article or something? Couldn’t see anything in KVR.

[drez]

They were making a point about the type of user using it as justification for why it doesn't have song mode, etc. I was just pointing out the circular nature of that argument.

But isn’t that just reinforcing his argument and the argument of why it was released without it?

No, it isn't

I'm not the sharpest knife in the drawer, or maybe this is some pendantic thing about what a "circular argument is", but It seems like it's only a circular argument if somebody is arguing against the reason it was made. Which doesn't seem possible, because it was made BY Ableton. They don't have to argue at all. It's a statement as to why it was made.

[drez]

They obviously weren’t set up to handle the amount of returns they’re dealing with

Curious to know more about this - is there a news article or something? Couldn’t see anything in KVR.

This is pure speculation on my part, but I think there might be a little bit of a delay tactic going on by Ableton. They might have gotten a bunch of support tickets from people wanting to return or exchange their push because of perceived hardware issues like the touch strip problem or possibly the knob issue where its a bit jumpy like the touch strip issue. Ableton might be trying to get that fixed to let people reconsider the return. There have been users posting at the ableton forum where support has answered the support ticket with "we think we can fix this in software".

I can already hear the "we have the right to return it for any reason in 30 days" or whatever counterpoints coming

It would be pretty wild for all the returns to be because it doesn't have built in arrangement view. I think there are definitely some number of those, but that's on the customer for not doing their research. I watched every launch vid, read all the site propaganda and nothing talked about that being a feature.

Obviously my speculation is simply that..speculation.

[elxsound]

They were making a point about the type of user using it as justification for why it doesn't have song mode, etc. I was just pointing out the circular nature of that argument.

But isn’t that just reinforcing his argument and the argument of why it was released without it?

No, it isn't

Well it wasn’t much of anything considering it applies to pretty much everything in life. So I guess a point that broad could be interpreted as anyway you’d like, which means…. Oh shit, another circular argument.

It’s like Inception but with arguments.

[simmo75]

They obviously weren’t set up to handle the amount of returns they’re dealing with

Curious to know more about this - is there a news article or something? Couldn’t see anything in KVR.

Me too, I can't find any info on 'the amount of returns'. Probably all in his/her head...

[rod_zero]

One thing is for sure, Ableton takes time to do stuff but they are not in a hurry to keep releasing stuff just for "growth", it took them 8 years for version 3 and it has some upgradability so I will expect it to be the main focus at least for 5 years and they can do a lot in that time.

[elxsound]

They obviously weren’t set up to handle the amount of returns they’re dealing with

Curious to know more about this - is there a news article or something? Couldn’t see anything in KVR.

Me too, I can't find any info on 'the amount of returns'. Probably all in his/her head...

Just found a likely source on the Ableton forums, but there’s still an assumption about returns vs. backlog with support, which is something I have seen to be true.

Lumping the delays in response with the people returning who are *rightfully upset* about not getting a response is not proof, but it’s definitely an issue all the same.

In the Elektronaut forum there, someone was told that the 30 day would be extended if needed due to delays and such. Someone else just received shipping notice for their replacement unit.

There are absolutely a number of issues, but honestly none of us know numbers as they relate to sales, vs returns for refunds, vs returns for replacement units, vs general support issues which would range from actual issues to RTFM issues.