can you legally use sampled drums?

[donkey tugger]

The messy part is when the sample library contains single hits from commercial songs.

You may think you're clear since you're a license holder of the sample library, but the sample library itself might not have been cleared. Then what?

In ye olde days of Jungle in the 90s there were sample libraries such as that, then people were sampling hits and breaks from tracks which had used them, which were in turn sampled, and so on...

[Ex Machina]

The messy part is when the sample library contains single hits from commercial songs.

You may think you're clear since you're a license holder of the sample library, but the sample library itself might not have been cleared. Then what?

The sound designers from Roland Research and Development overseen by Eric Persing and another well-known sound designer (I forget his name) in Los Angeles sampled tons of drum hits off of commercial records in the 90s and included these in the core Roland S-770 sample library.

Some of these illegal samples even made their way into well-known Roland and BOSS drum machines from that period. It’s amazing Roland never got sued because some of these drum sounds are clearly identifiable from their hit records. If I remember correctly, the sample “90s Snare” was lifted straight off of a Jam and Lewis produced Janet Jackson record.

That’s why I just laugh when Persing gets up on his high horse about copyright infringement. He’s such a “good Christian” hypocrite that it makes my eyes roll back in my head.

[BONES]

hi guys,
im wondering if you can legally use a samples hihat, snare, kick etc. when solo'ed in your record?

Probably not but you have to wonder who the f**k would know you had? Someone would have to prove you sampled it from their record and didn't simply arrive at the same sound via your own work. If you are sampling drum patterns, then you will run a much bigger risk of being caught, although we've been doing it for 25 years without anyone getting upset with us. But for single hits, I think you are not going to run into any legal problems. Even if you do, you'll never have to do more than share a tiny percentage of your royalties with the aggrieved party so I wouldn't worry about it at all.

If we ever got challenged, my defense would be that we did it as an homage to the original artist which, strangely enough, would most likely be the truth. We do little homages in our songs all the time, sometimes they are lyrical but at other times they can be musical. It's our tiny way of acknowledging the giants upon whose shoulders we stand. They are usually so subtle that we have to explain them to each other but they are there for the keen listener to find.

[whyterabbyt]

Haha, Have you read the terms and conditions?

of course. and the relevant copyright laws.

im glad to know that you're acknowledging what I said about the license terms and conditions defining what you're allowed to do.

In particular, I haven't read the above samples either. But I can
tell you: In 99.9% of all terms and conditions, the rights are
regulated exactly as I have described.

im also glad to know that you're acknowledging that not all terms and conditions are as you claimed.

so thanks for confirming what I said.

[gaggle of hermits]

That’s why I just laugh when Persing gets up on his high horse about copyright infringement. He’s such a “good Christian” hypocrite that it makes my eyes roll back in my head.

funny how you and he were such good mates a few weeks back:

https://gearspace.com/board/showpost.ph ... ostcount=6

https://gearspace.com/board/showpost.ph ... stcount=13

Well, I was sitting on the couch in his studio when he said it. And I'm not hard of hearing. So make of that what you will.

trouble in paradise?

[Milkman]

And this is the sort of nauseating outcome that convinced me 25+ years ago to never sell music or art in any way. Under an economy and culture like this one, art sales are a dead, soul-sucking space that I would never stumble down into.

I compose almost all of my own rhythm and melody, but <gasp> DARE I ever accidentally insert a 4 second loop with too much of someone else's already unoriginal drum break in it into my own track, try to sell that track, and its all over but the screaming and the legal bills.

Meanwhile some tech bro has a hard drive with 68 billion songs generated by "AI" -- all possible songs in the human musical language, past, present, future -- as we whittle down and debate which snippets of this or that we can borrow for our tracks on an internet forum.

[vurt]

you know they disallowed his claim.
he wasn't allowed to copyright every possible melody.

[AcrossTheSky]

hi guys,
im wondering if you can legally use a samples hihat, snare, kick etc. when solo'ed in your record?

Probably not but you have to wonder who the f**k would know you had? Someone would have to prove you sampled it from their record and didn't simply arrive at the same sound via your own work. If you are sampling drum patterns, then you will run a much bigger risk of being caught, although we've been doing it for 25 years without anyone getting upset with us. But for single hits, I think you are not going to run into any legal problems. Even if you do, you'll never have to do more than share a tiny percentage of your royalties with the aggrieved party so I wouldn't worry about it at all.

If we ever got challenged, my defense would be that we did it as an homage to the original artist which, strangely enough, would most likely be the truth. We do little homages in our songs all the time, sometimes they are lyrical but at other times they can be musical. It's our tiny way of acknowledging the giants upon whose shoulders we stand. They are usually so subtle that we have to explain them to each other but they are there for the keen listener to find.

... just make tunes ... change things here and there .. & don't think about the rest - it's all bull shi.. to keep you thinking and delayed from what you supposed to do ... creative music making ...

[BertKoor]

you know they disallowed his claim.
he wasn't allowed to copyright every possible melody.

And it was not AI, only dumb brute-force iteration over all possibilities.

[vurt]

hi guys,
im wondering if you can legally use a samples hihat, snare, kick etc. when solo'ed in your record?

Probably not but you have to wonder who the f**k would know you had? Someone would have to prove you sampled it from their record and didn't simply arrive at the same sound via your own work. If you are sampling drum patterns, then you will run a much bigger risk of being caught, although we've been doing it for 25 years without anyone getting upset with us. But for single hits, I think you are not going to run into any legal problems. Even if you do, you'll never have to do more than share a tiny percentage of your royalties with the aggrieved party so I wouldn't worry about it at all.

If we ever got challenged, my defense would be that we did it as an homage to the original artist which, strangely enough, would most likely be the truth. We do little homages in our songs all the time, sometimes they are lyrical but at other times they can be musical. It's our tiny way of acknowledging the giants upon whose shoulders we stand. They are usually so subtle that we have to explain them to each other but they are there for the keen listener to find.

... just make tunes ... change things here and there .. & don't think about the rest - it's all bull shi.. to keep you thinking and delayed from what you supposed to do ... creative music making ...

while i agree, i even have a side project based on "plunderphonics" so im not against sampling, but it is better to at least understand your legal position.
that some day, somebody could seek damages or ask you to remove a track. knowing this upfront, at least saves you the "what the f**k have i done?" moment of panic

even a tasteful homage, may not be enough to get you off the hook

but im happy bones is ok with the idea, it will make nicking samples from his tracks easier on my conscience

[vurt]

you know they disallowed his claim.
he wasn't allowed to copyright every possible melody.

And it was not AI, only dumb brute-force iteration over all possibilities.

i will trust you on that, im not tech savvy at all.
if someone had told me in the 80s my talking digital watch was ai, id have believed it