Mixing

[Jeff242]

So im having trouble mixing my music. I use all samplers and soft synths to make my music and i monitor my music using Audio-technica ATH-M40fs Headphones. These headphones are supposed to be super flat. Like +\- 1.5db from 5hz to 25khz. Now I understand that for mixings yoju want the flatest monitor possible, right? So, the problem is after i record and mix together all my music, it always sounds great on my headphones. Then when I mixdown and burn to a cd, I play my music on my home stereo system and all of my songs sound too bassy. Then I will try my songs in my car and the same thing, too much bass.
What am I doing wrong?
If i go and use eq on all my songs to cut out some of the bass, then my music sounds like shit on my headphones but sounds better on HIfi stereo's.
Is that the key to mixing: to mix your music so that it sounds like shit on your monitors so that it will sound good on everything else? That doesn't make sense. I always thought that you dont want to monitor your music using smiley face frequency speakers, rather you should use flat frequency speakers and mix your music to a smiley face. I was always told that using flat monitors you will hear the TRUTH. But its lying to me, saying that my music sounds good when in fact there is too much bass.
What can i do? or what do i not understand?
As you might have figured out by now, I have no professional training in mixing, and ive been learning mixing from 'trial and error', and the occasional article on the web or in a magazine.
Please Reply
Jeff

[C00kie]

it always sounds great on my headphones. Then when I mixdown and burn to a cd, I play my music on my home stereo system and all of my songs sound too bassy. Then I will try my songs in my car and the same thing, too much bass.
What am I doing wrong?

You did put in too much bass

If i go and use eq on all my songs to cut out some of the bass, then my music sounds like shit on my headphones but sounds better on HIfi stereo's.
Is that the key to mixing: to mix your music so that it sounds like shit on your monitors so that it will sound good on everything else? That doesn't make sense.

Oh no, you've discovered the Great Secret! Now you must swear not to tell somebody else or we have to kill you

Just kidding... Indeed you'll have to find a compromise in mixing, so it will sound OK on both. Every device (hifi set, ghettoblaster, headphone) that can play your track will sound different. Each has different peaks & dips in the frequency spectrum.

Monitors with a "flat frequency response" are not completely flat also, but come closer to it than most hifi systems. Most small monitors lack bass below 50Hz. Probably you let this fool you, and you compensated.

ive been learning mixing from 'trial and error', and the occasional article on the web or in a magazine.

Sounds like you are on the right track!

[M'Snah]

...

[Josmoker]

I've had the same problem - and haven't solved it yet.

One of the pieces of advice that pops up in every discussion on mixing and mastering, is that you cannot mix/master on headphones alone. Not even the best headphones. Because the bass sounds need space to be fully heard, and headphones don't have space, so you'll always turn up the bass too much.

--HansM

That's correct - even though headphones often have a range extending to very low frequencies that doesn't mean you're going to hear those low frequencies the same way you will on speakers or a subwoofer.
Do you frequently listen to professionally mixed music of your taste on your headphones? That should help you to pin down the sound you will need to achieve with your music when mixing with headphones.
I would much prefer mixing with a hifi stereo and checking on good headphones to the other way round, though. Get the bass to sound right and then check and tweak to make it sound ok on headphones as well while not ruining it on the stereo.
Nothing has helped me with mixing the bass part right as much as buying a nice subwoofer, though...

Cheers, jo

[Peller]

i monitor my music using Audio-technica ATH-M40fs Headphones. These headphones are supposed to be super flat. Like +\- 1.5db from 5hz to 25khz.

Mixing on headphones alone is notoriously difficult, especially with regard to the bass... and I'd take the 5Hz low with a pinch of salt. If you must do it, then a high-quality pair such as the Sony MDR7509 or Sennheiser HD600 is essential. In fact I find the Sonys' bass response transfers reasonably well to most speaker systems, but I wouldn't want to use them for anything with sub-bass in. Ideally, you really need to get some monitor speakers.

[IIRs]

If you want your mix to sound good on speakers, mix it on speakers.. mixing with headphones is a mug's game.

Get some monitors (or even HiFi speakers) and aim to set up your room so that your mixes sound broadly the same when you play them on other systems. Until you get that right you won't get your mixes right (short of blind luck) no matter how much you try to compensate and mix bass-light.. not to mention that it takes all the fun out of it when you know you can't make it sound like you really want to..

[kritikon]

As already mentioned...you've answered your own question.

Don't do final mixes on headphones. No ifs, no buts, just don't.

Bad for your ears, bad for your mix (even if it's kind to the neighbours). It's one of the very few general rules that apply in music creation. Headphones sound nothing like music played on speakers both in terms of frequency and stereo positioning. I'd rather mix on a pair of crappy ghetto-blaster speakers than with headphones (that was a completely serious comment by the way).

[videzyrah]

I'm starting mix more with relation to the sound coming from the crappy speakers that came with my computer because I figure it's most likely that that is how it is being heard by those who are checking out my tracks via the internet. (As for now that's the audience I'm aiming to please). I do check on my headphones and shelf-system stereo though to make sure I didn't add an overwhelming amount of bass that could be heard on better gear.

.02

[nocompromise]

experience is needed
do it more

[Timfonie]

Sometimes when listening to music thru headphones late at night I scare myself because the speaker system is still on, waking up the neighbours. It's because of the basses that can only originate from the speakers.

Well, that's what I'm thinking until I take off the headphones and realize the speakers weren't on at all.
The basses of the headphones are simply that great (even a somewhat exagerated; Byerdynamic D770).

Deep bass sounds from speakers go through the whole skull and they reflect on walls. But apart from that I see no reason why good mixing with headphones wouldn't be possible (at least in theory). OK, you might need a special dsp plugin.

[chagzuki]

The better a mix, the more it can be 'deformed' by non-flat gear and the musical elements remain intact.
Might not be just a question of EQ, different stereo systems can effect the stereo image differently, especially cheap ones which have 'enhancers' of a dubious nature.

Commercial mixes in similar genres differ massively in the kind of eq curve they have. The prodigy's latest album (which is shite) is crisply mixed, but strangely lacking in deep bass, probably just so that it can be limited to the ridicuous level that it is, and you'd expect music in this genre to be bass-heavy. Whereas Skinny Puppy's latest has a very prominent deep bass, like all cevin key's mixes. Take whichever you prefer as an example. I would er on the side of loud bass rather than quiet.

[Jeff242]

The better a mix, the more it can be 'deformed' by non-flat gear and the musical elements remain intact.

So how is that usually achieved? Is there a list of tips that one can follow to mix successfully?

Commercial mixes in similar genres differ massively in the kind of eq curve they have. The prodigy's latest album (which is shite) is crisply mixed, but strangely lacking in deep bass, probably just so that it can be limited to the ridicuous level that it is, and you'd expect music in this genre to be bass-heavy. Whereas Skinny Puppy's latest has a very prominent deep bass, like all cevin key's mixes. Take whichever you prefer as an example. I would er on the side of loud bass rather than quiet.

Its funny that you mention skinny puppy and prodigy because those sounds are which I am aiming my music after. I definetly perfer good strong bass, which is how my music sounds on headphones, but its just too muddy and bassy on other speakers, which begins to choke out all the midrange instruments.
Like many said above I need monitors.

BTW thaks to all who replied in this forum. I have a much better understanding of what the problem is and how to acheive better mixes. thanks to all

[arp_laszlo]

i've got those phones and LOVE them. just keep in mind that the bass you hear is not the same as hearing something on large speakers or with a subwoofer. you'll learn how something *should* sound on them as time goes on. when i started with them my highhats were piercing on hifi stereos because i wasn't used to mixing using something that didn't boost those freqs.

i'd recommend listening to well-mixed music on your phones and using those as a reference point until you've gotten to know them.

and don't do a final mix using phones - i use hifi or computer speakers with subwoofer so i adjust the mix *slightly* for consumer-grade listening.

[pHz]

i too have the same phones and get on great with them ...

... as with everything - LEARN YOUR GEAR - i use my phones for most composing and mixing duties but always reference to a similar commercial CD on phones and if the track is a 'serious' one check the mix on my 2 hifis and in the car ...

... the more you do these things the better you get at judging what you hear on your phones will sound like played elsewhere ...

... its just practise

slainte rob

[CypherOne]

I generally get told that my mixes are good (tunes are crap but hey..). I used to burn my tracks off to a CD and listen to them on as many different systems as possible.

I don't do that anymore but I do listen to my track a hell of a lot at every stage of the mixing process.

I don't think there's a magic formula or any particular plug that can fix it all (although I use Ozone and think it's fantastic at mastering).

I think a lot of practice and good ears are what's required.