Sad state of Native Instruments

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zerocrossing wrote: Wed Jul 19, 2023 4:03 am I’m trying to consolidate all the complaints of NI plugins here. The idea is to then all get together and send the link to anyone we can at NI.

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Why? Do you think they are unaware of people's issues? They aren't stupid, I'm sure they talk to customers all the time. Surely you can see by now that you are not their target market, that they don't care what you have to say if it doesn't align with the users they see as their core customers? Companies cannot be all things to all people, they have to pick and choose who they can and cannot look after properly.

I read your "open letter" and, honestly, 90% of what you had to say is completely irrelevant to me and my needs. The reasons I have not so much as listened to Massive X demos has nothing to do with what you wrote there. For me it is mostly a matter of price. So if NI spent 10,000 man hours implementing everything you listed, I still wouldn't bother listening to any of the demos. In fact, I'd likely be less inclined to. OTOH, if they halved the price I might actually have a look at it. Which seems like a less risky strategy to you?
gentleclockdivider wrote: Wed Jul 19, 2023 8:27 pmThere is stuff happening that is not made public yet , but yeah keep on complaining about a developer that keeps updating stuff .
I wasn't complaining at all, simply pointing out that there are different ways of interpreting behaviours, any of which maybe valid. And updates aren't always improvements. e.g. I stopped using Hive after the update to v2 because it became too unwieldy and the workflow was measurably worse. I went back to v1.2 for a while but eventually just gave up on it, until I recently discovered the Swarn skin.

Now, you might argue that adding a wavetable oscillator has to be an improvement but, in the wider sense, if you already have 3 or 4 wavetable synths with which you are thoroughly familiar, why do you need another one? It just complicates an already fairly complex synth for no wider benefit.

It's a great example of something I have noticed beta testing for Synapse, and that is the way that most beta teams are made up primarily of the so called "sound designers" who will make the factory patches, so what you get is a synth that is being designed for those guys, not for musicians or producers who are actually trying to make music. It's a case of the tail wagging the dog and it ruins perfectly good synths from time to time.
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pdxindy wrote: Sat Jul 22, 2023 12:02 am
machinesworking wrote: Fri Jul 21, 2023 10:44 pm The point again is simple, NI deprecated Absynth and it’s like every last thing they do sucks, which even as a user I’ve also been guilty of doing.

Okay, so you have said/thought that everything NI does sucks... now you have found a more nuanced point of view.
I don’t know man, sometime internet conversations turn just weird. I’ve complained about bean counters at NI making romplers and maschine expansions a priority over updating and keeping their products relevant for over a decade. I’ve had arguments with people here about how often NI deprecate popular products: Kore, Spektral Delay, Pro 53, Akoustic Piano, B3, etc. etc. Then there’s the hardware that went south, Rig Kontrol 3 audio drivers not updated and don’t work on Catalina much les M1. All of this is before NI were bought by an investment firm.

Even with that, I just don’t get the speculation that somehow NI are falling apart etc? IMO anyone who thinks that hasn’t been paying attention to the way they’ve always operated, calling that blaming the end user is just IMO the weirdness that people read into word on a screen vs real life interactive conversations.

No one should expect that they can possibly look up the history of every large plug in developer, so there’s absolutely no reason to feel like I am pointing this out to “blame the customer”, but because we’re on the internet where it’s always drama, that’s how it goes I guess.

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Yeah, it's absurd that anyone would think that NI have suddenly changed because they have new owners. They might change over time, who knows, but it's not like they used to be awesome and now they are terrible - they have been the way they are now for a decade or more.
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mixyguy2 wrote: Sat Jul 22, 2023 2:04 am
machinesworking wrote: Fri Jul 21, 2023 4:06 am More like complete utter misunderstanding what I'm trying to say.
Then maybe you didn't say it very well, because here's what I read:
I just think we (customers) hold NI up to a higher standard than other companies
I think not.
OK then, how happy are you with Air, MOTU instruments, Ohm Force, Nomad Factory? There are plenty of worse offenders these days than NI, Air and Ohm are complete train wrecks, yet NI are getting the most attention. That screams a higher standard. My reply was to someone saying:
(clever attempt to blame users for NI's current issues)


I just don’t have enough catholic guilt to think that saying end users are targeting NI a bit harsher means I’m “blaming” them.

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BONES wrote: Sat Jul 22, 2023 3:40 am Yeah, it's absurd that anyone would think that NI have suddenly changed because they have new owners. They might change over time, who knows, but it's not like they used to be awesome and now they are terrible - they have been the way they are now for a decade or more.
They have been much much worse than they are now even. Defining worse as deprecating products and not keeping others compatible with current OS and computer standards in general, they were much more brutal previous to Kore development stopping and up to it. A dozen products went away, they screwed up Komplete Care, PPC to Intel porting etc.

They also make great products for cheap if you get Komplete, and at least they haven’t completely abandoned development on all their older products like Air has.

Side note, it says you’re suspended but you’re able to post? WTF?

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Some people have more rights than other around here.
Always been the case.

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i thought the rot started right about when they tanked Kore. When they "updated/downgraded" Battery from 3 to 4. That's when it started to seem like NI had changed direction from a cutting edge soft synth developer into a money grubbing corpse. Doing Only what will bring in the most $. Yeah, yeah, all the corp bootlickers, now is your chance to chime in and say "b b but that what corporations do, they just exist to make money" ok. sure. Fortunately NI wasn't following that philosophy in the 2000s or i we would be missing some amazing software.
Last edited by CrystalWizard on Sat Jul 22, 2023 5:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
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if this post is edited -it was for punctuation, grammar, or to make it coherent (or make me seem coherent).

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machinesworking wrote: Sat Jul 22, 2023 3:54 am
OK then, how happy are you with Air, MOTU instruments, Ohm Force, Nomad Factory? There are plenty of worse offenders these days than NI, Air and Ohm are complete train wrecks, yet NI are getting the most attention. That screams a higher standard. My reply was to someone saying:
NI gets more attention simply because far more people use their products.

I don't have a single product from Air, Motu, Ohm Force or Nomad Factory. I have zero reason to ever post about companies I know nothing about.

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CrystalWizard wrote: Sat Jul 22, 2023 4:42 am i thought the rot started right abut when they tanked Kore. When they "updated/downgraded" Battery from 3 to 4. That's when it started to seem like NI had changed direction from a cutting edge soft synth developer into a money grubbing corpse. Doing Only what will bring in the most $. Yeah, yeah, all the corp bootlickers, now is your chance to chime in and say "b b but that what corporations do, they just exist to make money" ok. sure. Fortunately NI wasn't following that philosophy in the 2000s or i we would be missing some amazing software.
Kore wasn’t near the first casualty. There were literally 6-12 other plug ins that got deprecated before Kore: B3, Pro 53, Akoustic and Elektric Piano, Spectral Delay, Kompact, Intakt, Vokator… I’m probably forgetting a few?

So no, the rot didn’t start when they tanked Kore. A rep in their forums claimed it would be the last main product to be deprecated, and only the gullible would have believed that after the previous trail of blood! They did in fact slow down their abandoning of plug ins after Kore, but anyone paying attention knew it will never stop.

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pdxindy wrote: Sat Jul 22, 2023 4:58 am NI gets more attention simply because far more people use their products.
So they’re held to a higher standard because they’re more popular, got it! :wink:

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machinesworking wrote: Sat Jul 22, 2023 5:03 am
pdxindy wrote: Sat Jul 22, 2023 4:58 am NI gets more attention simply because far more people use their products.
So they’re held to a higher standard because they’re more popular, got it! :wink:
Not in my case...

You keep trying to make conclusions for others. Just speak for yourself. You're not actually good at accurately summarizing the comments of others.

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machinesworking wrote: Sat Jul 22, 2023 4:59 am
CrystalWizard wrote: Sat Jul 22, 2023 4:42 am i thought the rot started right about when they tanked Kore. When they "updated/downgraded" Battery from 3 to 4. That's when it started to seem like NI had changed direction from a cutting edge soft synth developer into a money grubbing corpse. Doing Only what will bring in the most $. Yeah, yeah, all the corp bootlickers, now is your chance to chime in and say "b b but that what corporations do, they just exist to make money" ok. sure. Fortunately NI wasn't following that philosophy in the 2000s or i we would be missing some amazing software.
Kore wasn’t near the first casualty. There were literally 6-12 other plug ins that got deprecated before Kore: B3, Pro 53, Akoustic and Elektric Piano, Spectral Delay, Kompact, Intakt, Vokator… I’m probably forgetting a few?

So no, the rot didn’t start when they tanked Kore. A rep in their forums claimed it would be the last main product to be deprecated, and only the gullible would have believed that after the previous trail of blood! They did in fact slow down their abandoning of plug ins after Kore, but anyone paying attention knew it will never stop.
Like i commented sometime around then. Spectral Delay was abandoned, those others were all downgraded into other products. Glad someone is keeping track better than i and can correct me on my opinion.
gadgets an gizmos..make noise~crystalawareness.bandcamp.com/ soundcloud.com/crystalawareness Restocked: 5/2026
if this post is edited -it was for punctuation, grammar, or to make it coherent (or make me seem coherent).

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I'm only buying hardware these days. Ok, I'll show myself out now.

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While we're all arguing about the same stuff we've all been arguing about for years, NI released Valves Pro yesterday.



This looks and sounds like an exceptionally well conceived library. There isn't anything else that has taken this approach - it feels best in class. It's vast but elegant, and looks like a lot of thought has gone into the different ways you can work with it.

It will be another product dismissed here as bloat. And I can understand that - most KVRers are eternally wanting old synths brought back, current ones better developed or new ones brought to market. The likes of Valves Pro is not for everyone, but like Lores or their recent guitar products they form a formidable arsenal for those working with acoustic instruments, especially composers.

NI's synth-based era is over. What remains of their focus isn't bad - quite the opposite. But it is undeniably different.
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I'm really disappointed Netflix wont be making a second season of 1899

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