KVR Audio

VELLTONE MUSIC · Post by **VELLTONE MUSIC** » Sun Jul 30, 2023 8:11 am

i am looking for 12AY7 tube emulation,so far only one free plugin found,it seems no commercial ones?
Heavy rock music rely on 12AX7 Tube mostly,but i found 12AY7 more pleasant and melodic in some cases,especially if you try to build virtual fx chain will be nice to have 12AY7 somewhere in the chain,but surprisingly nobody does saturation or amp emulations based on 12AY7...?/?
If somebody have info about such emu,please share link,thanks:)
https://www.hornetplugins.com/plugins/hornet-valvola/

jamcat · Post by **jamcat** » Sun Jul 30, 2023 8:19 am

Wave Arts Tube Saturator 2 has a 12AU7, which is even mellower than a 12AY7. It may do what you’re looking for. Perhaps even better.

https://wavearts.com/products/plugins/tube-saturator-2

Nameerf · Post by **Nameerf** » Sun Jul 30, 2023 8:38 am

There's not really anything magical or different about the 12AY7 tube itself - it just has 50% less gain than a 12AX7 - so this will have an effect depending on where it is in a circuit. If it's the initial preamp tube in a guitar amp it will have the effect of making the power tubes work harder, creating a different tone.
Just modelling a 12AY7 and placing it anywhere in the signal chain won't sound any different to a 12AX7. It's really about the gain staging in the amp.

VELLTONE MUSIC · Post by **VELLTONE MUSIC** » Sun Jul 30, 2023 8:50 am

Not sure about that,don't know anything about tech specifications actually,just rely on my ears.
12AU7 sound bit thin and doesn't have enough saturation to my taste.
12AT7 bit more harsh and not so pleasant as 12AX7 to my ears.
12AY7 sound like that little upgrade 12AX7 tone need to be more pleasant and useful in different projects,but no emulations?
I guess most people are so used to 12AX7 sound in guitar fx last 40-50 years can't even imagine heavy tone without it,but i think 12AY7 is better if man need less distortion and more open sound,probably do something with harmonics,that is more interesting than 12AX7,not a tech guy,just music lover with taste

Cheers

Nameerf · Post by **Nameerf** » Sun Jul 30, 2023 11:21 am

I understand your point, but what you're hearing is the gain staging in the amp - not characteristics of the tubes themselves - hence the effect wouldn't work by just modelling the tube - you'd have to model an amp with a 12AY7 preamp and another with a 12AX7 preamp and you'd hear the differences you describe. Mathematically (as in a coded plugin) you could just have the (12AX7) preamp tube gain and get exactly the same result..
I'm not trying to be argumentative! I'm trying to save you the bother of adding a 12AY7 emulation and expecting this effect. I was an amp tech and amp builder for many years.
I love 12AY7s in my "tweed" amps!

VELLTONE MUSIC · Post by **VELLTONE MUSIC** » Sun Jul 30, 2023 12:13 pm

Nameerf wrote: Sun Jul 30, 2023 11:21 am I understand your point, but what you're hearing is the gain staging in the amp - not characteristics of the tubes themselves - hence the effect wouldn't work by just modelling the tube - you'd have to model an amp with a 12AY7 preamp and another with a 12AX7 preamp and you'd hear the differences you describe. Mathematically (as in a coded plugin) you could just have the (12AX7) preamp tube gain and get exactly the same result..
I'm not trying to be argumentative! I'm trying to save you the bother of adding a 12AY7 emulation and expecting this effect. I was an amp tech and amp builder for many years.
I love 12AY7s in my "tweed" amps!

Thanks for this answer.This is actually a very good news,cause there is so many 12AX7 quality emulations out there:)
My idea was to build fx chain with various fx,layering very gentle drive,distorton,saturation so on and just like the sound of these amps,when use 12AY7 instead 12AX7.
Not after typical heavy rock sound,the free neural amp modeler already have thousands of dope presets for download,but more to experiment with gentle tube saturation on different busses.
Clippers do similar job,no idea where is tube distortion used or else,but the result is interesting.
Cheers

Aiynzahev · Post by **Aiynzahev** » Sun Jul 30, 2023 12:55 pm

https://www.shatteredglassaudio.com/product/112
Always liked this one for tubes - Phoenix 2

jens · Post by **jens** » Sun Jul 30, 2023 1:51 pm

Waves Metafilter - not sure what they're emulating, but the saturation is smooth as a baby's popo, especially in HQ-mode...

Namerf is spot on by the way.

Nameerf · Post by **Nameerf** » Sun Jul 30, 2023 1:54 pm

Yeah I agree there are SO many high gain amps and effects...
And yes saturation is a big part of it - 1950's/60's amps had inefficient speakers, big output transformers, wimpy power supplies and low gain preamps - ALL of these things add saturation and compression.
And power tube distortion has a very different character to preamp distortion - with lower gain preamps you crank the amp more, leading to more power tube distortion - so a good 6V6, 6L6, EL34 , EL84 etc. model coupled with loads of saturation and compression would be a good way to model that sound... And a good transformer emulation..

MogwaiBoy · Post by **MogwaiBoy** » Mon Jul 31, 2023 9:13 am

I put a 12AY7 in the 1st pre-amp position of my Fender Blues Deluxe and it calmed down the overly touchy input and early overdrive a lot - made the amp much more bedroom friendly but still gave the goods at band practices and live. I miss that amp.

I second what someone said above, the main appeal of a 12AY7 is that it simply cuts the gain down flowing to the next tube. When the input gain is cut, it changes the tone/feel and character of the whole sound coming out the other end. Gainstaging is important with tube circuits and 12Ay7's allow you to strategically cut gain and get a cleaner and less 'warm' overdriven tone.

Ofcourse 12AY's do have a sound of their own... but the science of that sound is a less aggressive and less gainy 12AX7. So you can pretty much emulate by using 12AX7 but adding a padding cut/gain drop before hitting it.

HoRNet · Post by **HoRNet** » Mon Jul 31, 2023 9:42 am

If you want to try it out we have a plugin called Guitar Kit:

https://www.hornetplugins.com/plugins/hornet-guitarkit/

you can change the tubes in the amp, speaker in the cab, microphones and so on. If you don't like the cab emulation you can turn it off and use an impulse.

Try it out and let me know!
Saverio

HoRNet · Post by **HoRNet** » Mon Jul 31, 2023 9:44 am

double post

MJACau · Post by **MJACau** » Fri Aug 04, 2023 1:56 am

HoRNet wrote: Mon Jul 31, 2023 9:42 am If you want to try it out we have a plugin called Guitar Kit:

https://www.hornetplugins.com/plugins/hornet-guitarkit/

It's is nice, I just wish it had 'stereo' mode like most other amp/cab combos.

CrystalWizard · Post by **CrystalWizard** » Fri Aug 04, 2023 4:44 am

jamcat wrote: Sun Jul 30, 2023 8:19 am Wave Arts Tube Saturator 2 has a 12AU7, which is even mellower than a 12AY7. It may do what you’re looking for. Perhaps even better.

https://wavearts.com/products/plugins/tube-saturator-2

I only have the v1 they nicely gave away. It's quite good.
edited:
i originally wrote a dumb comment because all numbers are starting to look the same.

HoRNet · Post by **HoRNet** » Fri Aug 04, 2023 9:26 am

MJACau wrote: Fri Aug 04, 2023 1:56 am
HoRNet wrote: Mon Jul 31, 2023 9:42 am If you want to try it out we have a plugin called Guitar Kit:

https://www.hornetplugins.com/plugins/hornet-guitarkit/
It's is nice, I just wish it had 'stereo' mode like most other amp/cab combos.

Well we never updated that because there was not much interest, but we can plan a major update if there is interest

Saverio

12AY7 Emulations????