Pro-L - do you use Oversampling? it seems not always better!

[plexuss]

So it’s a big fat no then

No. It's a big fat "it depends". Nuance...

[ramseysounds]

Cop out. If all you have, and I’m being polite, is an opinion, it’s clearly proof there is no discernible difference. Thank you

[plexuss]

Cop out. If all you have, and I’m being polite, is an opinion, it’s clearly proof there is no discernible difference. Thank you

Do as you must.

[MogwaiBoy]

2 things I've noticed with Pro-L 2:

1) You shouldn't audition the different oversampling modes in realtime and decide which is best - I don't know if it's a plugin thing or hearing/perception, but often the one you think sounds best in realtime (usually one of the lower OS multiples like x2 or x4) doesn't sound the best in the offline bounce (usually compared to the higher OS modes).

2) If you can live with occasional true peaks above your ceiling, then turn True Peak mode off - it almost always sounds worse when on. I don't know the science of that but that's my experience - and I have seen it is the experience of others too. However, DMG's Limitless sounds better in TP mode.

I wouldn't conflate Pro-L 2's oversampling with all oversampling in general - Pro-L 2 seems different.

In general, all dedicated saturators, overdrives and distortions sound better with OS, typically without exception, in my experience.

[Masterofdisaster]

and if your song Doesnt suck - would the extra bit of quality matter or not? the logic is a bit flawed saying "if its bad its bad". yes, thats true. but if its good, can it be slightly marginally better? cleaner? less digital noise/artifacts? ive spent countless hours doing a/b testing comparing mastering at 192k vs mastering at 44k, using identical plugin settings.
both masters end up at 44k/16bit. but on one, all processing was done in 192k. time and time again, does the 192k band limited version come on top. very slightly marginally at times, but always does. ive sent out both to clients and have them pick which one they think sounds better. ive asked friends to compare, and each time, the 192k version wins. why? because aliasing and the nyquist "roof" is not an issue anymore. even if its ever so marginal, using things like compressors, clippers, and limiters, in a 192k environment (regardless of any oversampling) just gives you a better quality end result, no matter if you downsample to 44/16 at the very end. this is a FACT. but i digress. this comment would be better suited in the 44k vs 48k thread, as im not really talking about oversampling here. cause oversampling in and of itself can be a bad thing.

what you are doing however is oversampling, you're just doing it manually and globally.
Which isn't a bad method anyway, because you avoid intermittent AA filtering. (But can cause more aliasing than having all the steps anti-aliased separately)

Which DAWs had option to enable oversampling locally for the whole channel strip for example.

yes. but what im ALSO doing, is letting each plugin work in 192k, so there are two benefits. one, im manually and globally OSing. Two, im letting plugins have more headroom as far as frequency content go; and digital artifacts will happen near nyquist which is much much higher up now. Two birds with one stone. I promise you that this approach sounds better, every time. But lets not continue in this thread which is about Pro L and oversampling.. i realise it goes a bit off topic.
But to answer to "cause more aliasing than having each step AAd seperately) i dont agree, cause when you band limit yourself you can use a gentle LP filter, doesnt even have to be in lin phase like most AA filters inside plugins (OS) are. So you minmise both aliasing, digital artifacts, pre-ringing, AND you get the two benefits. its just better. it means more work for you, bigger file sizes, more cpu time etc ; but its worth it. since its mastering and not mixing or anything else; it only really works for mastering.

[Ploki]

@plexuss so is there an audible difference or not, just by listening for example to a track on ipods? Its a yes / no answer

Yeah it is. Not necessarily for the better but it’s noticable

[lwj]

I usually switch it on by default, 2x or 4x does the job. I definitely hear a difference (sometimes) and it’s usually an improvement.

Then again, aliasing and digital dirt are kind of the backbone of my tracks so I can probably live with either preringing or aliasing.

[ramseysounds]

So @Ploki says ‘not necessarily for the better but it’s noticeable’ and @lwj says ‘I definitely hear a difference (sometimes) and it’s usually an improvement.’

Make of it what you will. Personally, I think each will have an ‘opinion’ with there being no hard factual AUDIBLE evidence. IMO

[onerob]

The audio examples given on page 1 show a pretty drastic difference when null-tested, which is objective. But the difference when listening to them side-by-side is much more subtle. The non-oversampled version is a tiny bit harsher at the highest frequencies when I listen on headphones, but there's very little in it.

[legendCNCD]

If you can live with occasional true peaks above your ceiling, then turn True Peak mode off - it almost always sounds worse when on. I don't know the science of that but that's my experience - and I have seen it is the experience of others too. However, DMG's Limitless sounds better in TP mode.

Yep Limitless sounds better overall, but changed to ozone9 maximizer as its even better with still TP on - for me.

[Caine123]

but what did people do when Limiters didnt have True Peaks option?

[plexuss]

but what did people do when Limiters didnt have True Peaks option?

We left unused headroom.

[nusound mind]

2) If you can live with occasional true peaks above your ceiling, then turn True Peak mode off - it almost always sounds worse when on. I don't know the science of that but that's my experience - and I have seen it is the experience of others too.

Thank you for this. Something worth knowing as I use Pro-L (among a couple other limiters) and have never considered turning it off before.

[dionenoid]

2) If you can live with occasional true peaks above your ceiling, then turn True Peak mode off - it almost always sounds worse when on. I don't know the science of that but that's my experience - and I have seen it is the experience of others too.

Thank you for this. Something worth knowing as I use Pro-L (among a couple other limiters) and have never considered turning it off before.

It's just a matter of taste. In many genres (electronic music especially) most ppl prefer keeping TP on before going into another limiter. Both for loudness as well as a type of sound.