FL Studio 21.1 released! - A disappointment in the making

[ImmutableTrepidation]

It has been 8 months since FL Studio 21 came out, and FL Studio 21.1 just released as of late. I cannot say I am pleased with the update, but I cannot say I'm surprised either. The fact that you cannot copy/paste MIDI directly in the Playlist still blows my mind. How are users so passively okay with this? This is such a BASIC feature in other pieces of Audio/MIDI software, why are we FL users so accustomed to being comfortable with our lack of features.

I issued a very thorough statement under Il's most recent YouTube video but I doubt it garners any momentum or traction. It is directly copied and pasted so the formatting may be a little sloppy as I doubt it translates accurately from site to site.

---The statement---
I don't mean to sound like "That Guy" but this is incredibly underwhelming for an update. Yeah nice, a new plugin and Python scripting but that is so niche... Not everybody are programmers.

There is still a severe lack of Playlist functionality and ZERO ability to copy/paste MIDI directly within the Playlist. Come on... it is mid 2023 and we STILL cannot copy/paste MIDI directly in the Playlist? I know the devs have said they're working on this but they also said back in 2018 they were working on custom hotkeys and that it was "Right around the corner"... yeah, what ever happened to that? Crickets

(FWIW, custom hotkeys are very easy to do with AutoHotkey, but lets face it, most users cannot be arsed to learn how to use it)

----------FAIRLY COMPREHENSIVE LIST OF SOME GRIPES/FEATURES THAT COULD BE REWORKED/ADDED!------------

Inability to display Ghost Notes over multiple Patterns within the Playlist (Instruments MUST be in the same Pattern for Ghost Notes to be viewable, but even then they're all just WHITE and there is no clear distinction about what instruments are what)

Inability to transpose selections of multiple Patterns within the Playlist +/- semitones all at once (The "solution" is to CTRL + G the Patterns to merge them in to a single Pattern, Transpose THAT new Pattern, and THEN "Split By Channel" which will absolutely LITTER the Picker Panel with copies and clones of all sorts during the life of an entire project)

Inability to copy/paste MIDI directly in the Playlist

Picker Panel has a tendency to become bloated and cluttered with Patterns/Automation/Audio Clips when using "Make Unique"

No native hotkey for Make Unique (I personally think "Make Unique" should be reworked or entirely removed though)

Usage of the "new" automation editor pop-out window (introduced in V20.9) in order to perform a few functions that cannot be done directly on the Automation Clip itself (Why do we need a new dedicated separate window?... just let us perform these on the Automation Clip itself....)

Audio Clips/Drums in the Playlist don't have the same features and editing capabilities as Audio Clips/Drums used in the Channel Rack (Envelopes, LFOs, Mod X/Y, Arpeggiator, MIDI Delay/Note Echo)

No Ability to have two or more Instrument Tracks on the same Mixer Insert (LOTS of reasons this is problematic)

No MIDI support for native Generators (plugins) (I think there is a workaround with Patcher, but once again... not everybody likes using Patcher to solve "simple" problems)

Event Editing is light years behind what other pieces of software have (Freeware sequencers like Sekaiju (which looks and feels like a potato to use compared to FL) have better Event Editing capabilities than FL Studio... does anybody actually ENJOY using the Event Editor? I find myself wanting to rip tufts of my hair out when trying to use it with any intention of accuracy

No Automation Clip styled editing in the Piano Roll (If we want the Automation Clip styled precision in the Piano Roll, our solution is to use Automation in the Playlist, then convert that Automation Clip to MIDI Events, and then DELETE the Automation Clip when we're done converting it to events! which is far more mouse clicks than necessary)

Soundfont Player (64bit version of "Fruity Soundfont Player" is highly unstable and exhibits bizarre behaviors (Prone to crashing FL Studio as well)

Inability to select multiple VST plugins from the Mixer/FX slots to delete/reorder (you have to click them one by one and press "E" to remove them individually one at a time...)

When using Instrument Tracks, moving them up or down in the playlist does NOT reflect in the Channel Rack or Mixer as if they're completely independent. There is no sense of being "tied" together or any linkage (this requires the user to exert a lot of effort to stay organized)

Inability to create groups within groups (Subgroups) on Playlist tracks

Inability to edit multiple instruments MIDI data off a single Piano Roll without first consulting Patcher and using VFX Color Mapper (unnecessary and not all of us like to use Patcher to begin with) (Also the real-time note preview/highlight in the Piano Roll doesn't even highlight correctly when using VFX Color Mapper)

When using Layer, the real-time note preview/highlight doesn't display

Inability to "Set Children" when using an instance of "Layer" in the Playlist as an Instrument Track (setting "Children" can only be done from the Channel Rack rack which is counterintuitive for those of us who have abandoned using the Channel Rack)

Windows/Plugins pop up wherever they so please - their behavior is seemingly completely random and they just have a mind of their own. They don't load from the same set of coordinates (Can be addressed with AHK)

Inability to use Slide Notes on third-party plugins (yes I know there exists a tool called Bendy but to my knowledge it isn't a walk in the park to set up and use)

Inability to Auto Color Playlist tracks (you must right click the track header and press "C" EVERY single time a new clip gets added to that particular Playlist track)

Inability to delete user defined "Groups" within the Picker Panel (despite a thread being open as early as 2018 with zero acknowledgment from developers)

When trying to merge a selection of Patterns in the playlist (Ctrl +G) if you have Automation Clips and Track Groups collapsed/hidden, when making your selection it will manage to select the hidden/collapsed Automations thus prompting the message "Contains Multiple Clip Types" which prohibits you from proceeding

Vertical scrolling (via mousewheel) in the Playlist is very slow (something like the Windows feature "Choose how many lines to scroll" would be great)

---------------------------------------CONCLUSION-----------------------------------------------------------------
It isn't like anything I've specified hasn't already been requested to death on the official forums, so why is it that it these requests keep being swept under the rug? The solution for FL Studio moving forward isn't necessarily to keep adding "new" things, it is to rework what has needed to be reworked for YEARS now.

FL Studio is very far behind in its current feature set. As a 10 year user I LOVE it to death, but man the devs really need to play catch-up so that FL Studio can righteously prove itself as a serious candidate and competitor to DAWs like Studio One, Cubase, Ableton etc... Recall that it took until FL Studio 21 just to have native fade in/outs on Audio Clips/Samples within the Playlist... Other DAWs had this for years.

This really needs addressed. IMHO FL Studio will not redeem itself as a professional Audio/MIDI environment until some of these features can be addressed. Look, I know you cannot fulfill the requests and desires of EVERYBODY but I think many of these requests are not ridiculous and self gratifying, that is to say that they would certainly benefit MANY other users. I 100% stand by what was said in the video that "FL Studio has the best Piano Roll of any other DAW" this is indisputably true, but when it comes to things like the Playlist, it feels like a children's toy...

<3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3
(End of Comment)

Anyways, I figured some of you could relate. It feels like we're making a snails pace of progress when it comes to any sort of continuity in the Playlist regarding FL Studio updates. I just don't ever really envision a day when we'll see progress. I wish I had started using another DAW from the get go and that FL Studio wasn't my native DAW, it is too much of a headache to try and get it to behave like a more linear DAW such as Ableton/Studio One/Cubase. Everyone seems so happy with FL 21 and I couldn't be more disappointed. It is just a gloried and ornamented toy. The Piano Roll is the only feature they're more or less gotten "right" (give or take a few gripes about it)

[MirkoVanHauten]

I don't get why some want to turn FL into something all the other DAWs do. Why not use all the other DAWs then?

Other stuff you wrote doesn't make much sense, like "No Ability to have two or more Instrument Tracks on the same Mixer Insert". Yeah then don't use instrument tracks. Their one and only purpose is to create the conventional link between an instrument, its name, its assigned color, and a mixer track.

Or "Inability to use Slide Notes on third-party plugins", yeah because it's not a MIDI standard, but some FL internal thing. 3rd party plugins would need to compile a FL plugin.

[lotus2035]

All DAWs are a pain in the ass in one way or another. Pick your poison, accept it's 'limitations' and get to work. There is nothing about FL Studio that will stop you getting the end result you desire. This is true going back many versions. In my mind any additions are just bonuses at this point.

[AdvancedFollower]

The MIDI jitter improvements are as big deal for many users and must have taken a lot of work behind this scenes to implement. As I recall, in previous versions the UI and MIDI components shared a single thread on the CPU, leading to this problem. I remember this fix being requested in their forum half a decade ago.

For me the strict loop-based workflow (including being required to edit everything in the same pattern in order to see ghost notes) is just the way FL works, and it's the main reason why I stick with Cubase. I understand at some point they will implement a more linear workflow, but that's a huge task, essentially reworking the entire DAW from scratch.

[EvilDragon]

As I recall, in previous versions the UI and MIDI components shared a single thread on the CPU, leading to this problem.

Not just that, but as far as I recall, FL didn't utilize the event timestamping option that all the plugin types have, which allow positioning a MIDI event precisely within an audio buffer. They instead slice things into random sized buffers (which a lot of plugins don't like, and is also less CPU efficient).

[elassi]

...

tl;dr

[MathieuHouse]

the fact that you cannot copy/paste MIDI directly in the Playlist is really bad

[N__K]

[...] I 100% stand by what was said in the video that "FL Studio has the best Piano Roll of any other DAW" this is indisputably true [...]

Pedantically speaking, it isn't.

For example, the user experience of REAPER's piano roll can be customized/personalized to be more convenient than that of FL Studio (albeit it depends on the user's needs, to some extent). And there are users of other DAWs who are more comfortable with the piano roll in theirs - especially if it was their first DAW.

The thing that IL (not sure if it was gol alone anymore, at the time of FruityLoops v3) got right in their piano roll is a minimum-clicks-required basic functionality with a two-button mouse. As a result, most newbies learned intuitively how to do elementary things in FL's pianoroll, without having to read the manual, and often with little-to-no usage of modifier keys. Hence, the "best piano roll ever" meme happened.

Efficiently working in FL Studio's piano roll at a so-called "professional level" - with quick tool switching etc. - requires as much learning as in most other DAWs. And by the time you understand composition well enough to not need to delete your notes all the time, the delete-via-right-click seems like a waste of the right mouse button [from perspective of UX design].

[...] I wish I had started using another DAW from the get go and that FL Studio wasn't my native DAW [...]

It seems that you're not a newbie anymore, and you understand why you'd want features common in some other DAWs. FL Studio is a great "my first DAW" type of app, with some addictive sandbox-like "playability". Sticking to that design correlates with IL having made millions in profit. FL Studio is likely the most popular DAW on the planet not because it's a "pro app", but because in many ways it isn't; another FL Studio meme is that every kid with a PC has at least a demo of it, and it's pretty much true.

In other words, the immediacy of making a quick beat right there on the main screen, without having to read a manual or understand anything about music theory, is supposedly what sells IL most of their licenses. So chances are, IL won't be changing the app too much to be like other DAWs. At least, not as long as sales of FL Studio with its current design philosophy remain good. "If it isn't broken, don't fix it" and all that.

***

TLDR: Just switch your main DAW to something else and be happier. Consider the ten years of using FL Studio a chrysalis of your DAW-user-persona - perhaps now it is time for metamorphosis?

[sjm]

the fact that you cannot copy/paste MIDI directly in the Playlist is really bad

You can simply copy the pattern. While that's probably not what the OP means, it achieves the same result. This really just boils down to a fundamental misunderstanding of how FL Studio works. You have to copy a pattern in the playlist, because a pattern can - unlike other DAWs - contain multiple instruments' parts in a single pattern. As such, you need to copy the full container when copying stuff in the playlist, because that's the level you are working at in the playlist.

Instead of approaching FL Studio like a linear DAW or tape machine, it helps to think of the playlist in FL Studio as a canvas where you paint your arrangement using the building blocks created in either the piano roll or the step sequencer. The playlist is completely decoupled from the mixer and the channel rack by design - it's a different paradigm, and trying to enforce methods that aren't compatible with that paradigm is obviously not going to work and cause frustration. If you want to copy the notes for a single channel, you have to do that in either the channel rack or in the PR. It's not that you can't copy parts, it's just that you need to understand how everything ties together to understand how you achieve that goal.

I don't get why some want to turn FL into something all the other DAWs do. Why not use all the other DAWs then?

Basically this. It's a different paradigm. If you want the standard linear one track per playlist lane approach, use another DAW. They're a dime a dozen. The alternative is to embrace the way things are handled in FL Studio and the rich possibilities on offer as a result. It makes certain things way easier, other things aren't as easy or require a different approach to achieve the same results (such as copying the note data in the channel rack or piano roll). You can't expect to mix incompatible paradigms at will and have things work - they're incompatible for a reason! Either embrace the paradigm, or use something else that is closer to how you want your DAW to work. There's no lack of choice out there.

You only need to look at the pig's ear that is instrument tracks to see what happens if you try and mix incompatible paradigms. IL have ended up creating something the looks like a linear DAW aping a tape machine, but doesn't behave like one, and I get it that that is confusing. That's definitely poor design on IL's part, though to be fair, the only reason they did this is because people want FL to be something that it isn't. In practice, the main benefit of the instrument tracks is simply keeping your naming and colouring in sync with the mixer. You can still put any pattern you like on an instrument track, and it will still play on the instruments that are set up to play in the pattern, completely ignoring the instrument assigned to the instruments track. That's because it's still the same playlist under the hood, however much it pretends not to be.

Rather than creating even more confusing WTF situations like this, it'd be much better to just let FL Studio be what it is - something rooted in patterns, and with a setup more reminiscent of old trackers and hardware step sequencers, than something trying to imitate a mixing desk feeding a tape machine. If you can embrace FL Studio for what it is, rather than what it isn't, you'll have a much better time of it. And, as said, there are some real workflow advantages in there once you've taken the time to actually understand how the channel rack, playlist and mixer interact with one another. There must be some good beginner tutorials out there that clear this all up in a few minutes. Once you understand how FL Studio actually works, things like copying notes become a breeze.

[kritikon]

If you have a list that long of supposedly crucial omissions in FL...you really should consider using a different DAW. Lots of them will already do what you want (but will also have different omissions).

[dayjob]

sheesh. that wall of text is tall enough to fly a plane into.

[bmanic]

[...] I 100% stand by what was said in the video that "FL Studio has the best Piano Roll of any other DAW" this is indisputably true [...]

For example, the user experience of REAPER's piano roll can be customized/personalized to be more convenient than that of FL Studio (albeit it depends on the user's needs, to some extent).

I very much disagree here. Yes Reaper's piano roll can be customized to a degree but the underlying code that decides when, where and how the icons change can NOT be customized as far as I know.. and it's pretty bad in Reaper. The various mouse-over points are not at all intuitive, unlike FL Studio that has by far the best implementation. I almost never wrongfully move a note instead of making it larger in FL Studio, no matter how few pixels the note is.. whereas this simple feat happens all the time in Reaper, even with rather long notes.

Usability is much more than just changing around keyboard shortcuts and mouse modifiers. The core of usability lies also within the actual graphics, mouse over points and how the various objects "move" when dragged. This is an area where Reaper feels years behind almost all the competition, in my opinion. It feels clumsy and clunky, no matter how much you try to modify it because the underlying system is clumsy and clunky.

Believe me when I say that I've tried. Reaper is my daily driver for almost everything but I still find it's piano roll (and MIDI CC editing!) a huge pain in the arse.

[N__K]

[...] I 100% stand by what was said in the video that "FL Studio has the best Piano Roll of any other DAW" this is indisputably true [...]

For example, the user experience of REAPER's piano roll can be customized/personalized to be more convenient than that of FL Studio (albeit it depends on the user's needs, to some extent).

I very much disagree here. Yes Reaper's piano roll can be customized to a degree but the underlying code that decides when, where and how the icons change can NOT be customized as far as I know.. and it's pretty bad in Reaper. The various mouse-over points are not at all intuitive, unlike FL Studio that has by far the best implementation. I almost never wrongfully move a note instead of making it larger in FL Studio, no matter how few pixels the note is.. whereas this simple feat happens all the time in Reaper, even with rather long notes.

Usability is much more than just changing around keyboard shortcuts and mouse modifiers. The core of usability lies also within the actual graphics, mouse over points and how the various objects "move" when dragged. This is an area where Reaper feels years behind almost all the competition, in my opinion. It feels clumsy and clunky, no matter how much you try to modify it because the underlying system is clumsy and clunky.

Believe me when I say that I've tried. Reaper is my daily driver for almost everything but I still find it's piano roll (and MIDI CC editing!) a huge pain in the arse.

That's interesting.

I just did a few tests. In both FL Studio and REAPER, the mouseover/hit area for extending the note appears to be the few pixels (8-16, depending on UI scaling?) at edges of the note. In both apps the middle of the note (everything except the edge hit areas) is/can be reserved for moving the note, and the cursor changes to reflect the behavior.

In FL Studio, if the note is extremely small, the hit areas appear to be extended around the visible note boundaries. Whereas in REAPER, the note edge hit areas are always inside the visible note boundaries; so in REAPER, if you make a note extremely short, you may need to zoom in to be able to hit it at all.

Related is that in FL Studio, you cannot make the note extremely short (like "0:00:001") via visual dragging; such lengths have to be set manually via Note Properties. In REAPER, however, with snapping disabled, it's possible to drag a note edge until the note has a length of 0.0.001; after which, indeed, zooming in will probably be needed for mouse to hit any of the note's hit areas.

Also, in FL Studio, visual zoom level is tied to project PPQ and there is less chances of a zoom setting being such that note is visually very short.

So in the above case, FL Studio is designed to "guide" the user, as per its newbie-friendly design philosophy. Whereas REAPER just gives you the raw functionality as-is, and expects you to know what you're doing in relation to how the app works.

***

Another difference is that in REAPER, the note can always be resized from both the left and the right sides; the mouse modifier context "MIDI note edge" always applies to both sides of the note. So (at the time of posting this message) in REAPER you cannot make left edge of the note have different behavior than the right one.

In comparison, in FL Studio's piano roll, the left edge of the note is by default reserved for moving the note. In v10 and newer, the setting "Edit > Allow resizing from left" can be activated, which brings it closer to behavior in REAPER.

***

Not sure to what extent the above relates to / helps with the issues you've experienced in REAPER's piano roll, but there it is anyway.

In any case, I agree that more customization possibilities of UX in REAPER - including the hit areas of clips and notes - would be a good thing. If you make a feature request related to that on REAPER forums, I'm sure there will be a few +1's. To what extent Cockos can oblige cannot be predicted, but you never know

[jules99]

At this point, I'm wondering: when was the last update of ANY of the big DAWs, where its userbase didn't feel like major improvements were left out? And long lists of complaints like this one were made? Not to say that you didn't make some valid points, but I'm wondering if these expectations come from looking at the competition too much.

[Trancit]

...

tl;dr

Too short... I had to search for the meaning... I am too old I think... in my times we communicated in whole sentences...Subject, predicate, object, you know