You said their lifetime free updates meant there was no impetus to release updates on a timely schedule. That isn't supported by the data. I was asking what you were basing it on.eerie_audio wrote: Wed Aug 16, 2023 2:07 am I'll take quality over quantity anytime. This then becomes subject, which everyone is entitled to their own opinions. Everyone has their own needs, wants and desires of their host system.
The problem isn´t the programming language but how Gol puzzeld this thingie together...eerie_audio wrote: Wed Aug 16, 2023 1:52 amThe easy answer is that the program was initially written in Delphi, which comes with it's limitations. I'm not sure how much of the code has been updated, but I'm pretty sure some of the shortcomings still persist.ImmutableTrepidation wrote: Thu Aug 10, 2023 4:52 pm
---------------------------------------CONCLUSION-----------------------------------------------------------------
It isn't like anything I've specified hasn't already been requested to death on the official forums, so why is it that it these requests keep being swept under the rug? The solution for FL Studio moving forward isn't necessarily to keep adding "new" things, it is to rework what has needed to be reworked for YEARS now.
FL Studio is very far behind in its current feature set. As a 10 year user I LOVE it to death, but man the devs really need to play catch-up so that FL Studio can righteously prove itself as a serious candidate and competitor to DAWs like Studio One, Cubase, Ableton etc... Recall that it took until FL Studio 21 just to have native fade in/outs on Audio Clips/Samples within the Playlist... Other DAWs had this for years.
This really needs addressed. IMHO FL Studio will not redeem itself as a professional Audio/MIDI environment until some of these features can be addressed. Look, I know you cannot fulfill the requests and desires of EVERYBODY but I think many of these requests are not ridiculous and self gratifying, that is to say that they would certainly benefit MANY other users. I 100% stand by what was said in the video that "FL Studio has the best Piano Roll of any other DAW" this is indisputably true, but when it comes to things like the Playlist, it feels like a children's toy...
<3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3
(End of Comment)
Anyways, I figured some of you could relate. It feels like we're making a snails pace of progress when it comes to any sort of continuity in the Playlist regarding FL Studio updates. I just don't ever really envision a day when we'll see progress. I wish I had started using another DAW from the get go and that FL Studio wasn't my native DAW, it is too much of a headache to try and get it to behave like a more linear DAW such as Ableton/Studio One/Cubase. Everyone seems so happy with FL 21 and I couldn't be more disappointed. It is just a gloried and ornamented toy. The Piano Roll is the only feature they're more or less gotten "right" (give or take a few gripes about it)
You also have to take into account that they offer Life Time Free Updates, which again comes with it's shortcomings of not having financial incentive to release anything, if at all, on a timely schedule.
Same data you're basing your facts on. The obvious non-existing financial incentive to fix, update or deliver anything at all. If the updates are free, then what's their motive? Keep their current customer base satisfied for a lifetime, or trying to attract new customers with new features? I think the only financial incentive at play is the latter. Which means persistent bugs, workarounds and shortcomings get pushed to the back of line. That's called common sense business practices in the modern age for a lot of developers these days.Carbonboy wrote: Wed Aug 16, 2023 2:53 am That isn't supported by the data. I was asking what you were basing it on.
The problem is coupled with the programming language. You have to keep in mind that the program was written a long time ago in a 32 bit environment with a programming language other than C, C++, etc. This along with the spaghetti code as you mention, is a recipe for a life time of bugs and fixes at a snails pace.Trancit wrote: Wed Aug 16, 2023 3:31 pm The problem isn´t the programming language but how Gol puzzeld this thingie together...
The problems which need to be adressed to be able to make changes are so deeply rooted in the progamm core that this has to be changed at core level first to open the programm up for future ideas and being able to implement them more modular...
This is (afaik) why it takes so long time... changing nearly everything under the hood and under it´s hood...
You said they were not releasing updates. OK, now you change to not bug fixing. This is a new argument. So let's now debunk that myth.eerie_audio wrote: Wed Aug 16, 2023 6:21 pmSame data you're basing your facts on. The obvious non-existing financial incentive to fix, update or deliver anything at all. If the updates are free, then what's their motive? Keep their current customer base satisfied for a lifetime, or trying to attract new customers with new features? I think the only financial incentive at play is the latter. Which means persistent bugs, workarounds and shortcomings get pushed to the back of line. That's called common sense business practices in the modern age for a lot of developers these days.Carbonboy wrote: Wed Aug 16, 2023 2:53 am That isn't supported by the data. I was asking what you were basing it on.
This problem is not unique to FL Studio. It is a common problem for all mature software. Ableton had the same issues with refactoring. I saw an interview with one of their developers about it.eerie_audio wrote: Wed Aug 16, 2023 6:26 pm This along with the spaghetti code as you mention, is a recipe for a life time of bugs and fixes at a snails pace.
Question? What have you released on a professional level? Do you get paid to make music? You talk like someone who's job depends on these problems getting fixed. KVR is filled with wannabe's who whine and cry all day behind a keyboardImmutableTrepidation wrote: Thu Aug 10, 2023 4:52 pm It has been 8 months since FL Studio 21 came out, and FL Studio 21.1 just released as of late. I cannot say I am pleased with the update, but I cannot say I'm surprised either. The fact that you cannot copy/paste MIDI directly in the Playlist still blows my mind. How are users so passively okay with this? This is such a BASIC feature in other pieces of Audio/MIDI software, why are we FL users so accustomed to being comfortable with our lack of features.
I issued a very thorough statement under Il's most recent YouTube video but I doubt it garners any momentum or traction. It is directly copied and pasted so the formatting may be a little sloppy as I doubt it translates accurately from site to site.
---The statement---
I don't mean to sound like "That Guy" but this is incredibly underwhelming for an update. Yeah nice, a new plugin and Python scripting but that is so niche... Not everybody are programmers.
There is still a severe lack of Playlist functionality and ZERO ability to copy/paste MIDI directly within the Playlist. Come on... it is mid 2023 and we STILL cannot copy/paste MIDI directly in the Playlist? I know the devs have said they're working on this but they also said back in 2018 they were working on custom hotkeys and that it was "Right around the corner"... yeah, what ever happened to that? Crickets
(FWIW, custom hotkeys are very easy to do with AutoHotkey, but lets face it, most users cannot be arsed to learn how to use it)
----------FAIRLY COMPREHENSIVE LIST OF SOME GRIPES/FEATURES THAT COULD BE REWORKED/ADDED!------------
Inability to display Ghost Notes over multiple Patterns within the Playlist (Instruments MUST be in the same Pattern for Ghost Notes to be viewable, but even then they're all just WHITE and there is no clear distinction about what instruments are what)
Inability to transpose selections of multiple Patterns within the Playlist +/- semitones all at once (The "solution" is to CTRL + G the Patterns to merge them in to a single Pattern, Transpose THAT new Pattern, and THEN "Split By Channel" which will absolutely LITTER the Picker Panel with copies and clones of all sorts during the life of an entire project)
Inability to copy/paste MIDI directly in the Playlist
Picker Panel has a tendency to become bloated and cluttered with Patterns/Automation/Audio Clips when using "Make Unique"
No native hotkey for Make Unique (I personally think "Make Unique" should be reworked or entirely removed though)
Usage of the "new" automation editor pop-out window (introduced in V20.9) in order to perform a few functions that cannot be done directly on the Automation Clip itself (Why do we need a new dedicated separate window?... just let us perform these on the Automation Clip itself....)
Audio Clips/Drums in the Playlist don't have the same features and editing capabilities as Audio Clips/Drums used in the Channel Rack (Envelopes, LFOs, Mod X/Y, Arpeggiator, MIDI Delay/Note Echo)
No Ability to have two or more Instrument Tracks on the same Mixer Insert (LOTS of reasons this is problematic)
No MIDI support for native Generators (plugins) (I think there is a workaround with Patcher, but once again... not everybody likes using Patcher to solve "simple" problems)
Event Editing is light years behind what other pieces of software have (Freeware sequencers like Sekaiju (which looks and feels like a potato to use compared to FL) have better Event Editing capabilities than FL Studio... does anybody actually ENJOY using the Event Editor? I find myself wanting to rip tufts of my hair out when trying to use it with any intention of accuracy
No Automation Clip styled editing in the Piano Roll (If we want the Automation Clip styled precision in the Piano Roll, our solution is to use Automation in the Playlist, then convert that Automation Clip to MIDI Events, and then DELETE the Automation Clip when we're done converting it to events! which is far more mouse clicks than necessary)
Soundfont Player (64bit version of "Fruity Soundfont Player" is highly unstable and exhibits bizarre behaviors (Prone to crashing FL Studio as well)
Inability to select multiple VST plugins from the Mixer/FX slots to delete/reorder (you have to click them one by one and press "E" to remove them individually one at a time...)
When using Instrument Tracks, moving them up or down in the playlist does NOT reflect in the Channel Rack or Mixer as if they're completely independent. There is no sense of being "tied" together or any linkage (this requires the user to exert a lot of effort to stay organized)
Inability to create groups within groups (Subgroups) on Playlist tracks
Inability to edit multiple instruments MIDI data off a single Piano Roll without first consulting Patcher and using VFX Color Mapper (unnecessary and not all of us like to use Patcher to begin with) (Also the real-time note preview/highlight in the Piano Roll doesn't even highlight correctly when using VFX Color Mapper)
When using Layer, the real-time note preview/highlight doesn't display
Inability to "Set Children" when using an instance of "Layer" in the Playlist as an Instrument Track (setting "Children" can only be done from the Channel Rack rack which is counterintuitive for those of us who have abandoned using the Channel Rack)
Windows/Plugins pop up wherever they so please - their behavior is seemingly completely random and they just have a mind of their own. They don't load from the same set of coordinates (Can be addressed with AHK)
Inability to use Slide Notes on third-party plugins (yes I know there exists a tool called Bendy but to my knowledge it isn't a walk in the park to set up and use)
Inability to Auto Color Playlist tracks (you must right click the track header and press "C" EVERY single time a new clip gets added to that particular Playlist track)
Inability to delete user defined "Groups" within the Picker Panel (despite a thread being open as early as 2018 with zero acknowledgment from developers)
When trying to merge a selection of Patterns in the playlist (Ctrl +G) if you have Automation Clips and Track Groups collapsed/hidden, when making your selection it will manage to select the hidden/collapsed Automations thus prompting the message "Contains Multiple Clip Types" which prohibits you from proceeding
Vertical scrolling (via mousewheel) in the Playlist is very slow (something like the Windows feature "Choose how many lines to scroll" would be great)
---------------------------------------CONCLUSION-----------------------------------------------------------------
It isn't like anything I've specified hasn't already been requested to death on the official forums, so why is it that it these requests keep being swept under the rug? The solution for FL Studio moving forward isn't necessarily to keep adding "new" things, it is to rework what has needed to be reworked for YEARS now.
FL Studio is very far behind in its current feature set. As a 10 year user I LOVE it to death, but man the devs really need to play catch-up so that FL Studio can righteously prove itself as a serious candidate and competitor to DAWs like Studio One, Cubase, Ableton etc... Recall that it took until FL Studio 21 just to have native fade in/outs on Audio Clips/Samples within the Playlist... Other DAWs had this for years.
This really needs addressed. IMHO FL Studio will not redeem itself as a professional Audio/MIDI environment until some of these features can be addressed. Look, I know you cannot fulfill the requests and desires of EVERYBODY but I think many of these requests are not ridiculous and self gratifying, that is to say that they would certainly benefit MANY other users. I 100% stand by what was said in the video that "FL Studio has the best Piano Roll of any other DAW" this is indisputably true, but when it comes to things like the Playlist, it feels like a children's toy...
<3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3
(End of Comment)
Anyways, I figured some of you could relate. It feels like we're making a snails pace of progress when it comes to any sort of continuity in the Playlist regarding FL Studio updates. I just don't ever really envision a day when we'll see progress. I wish I had started using another DAW from the get go and that FL Studio wasn't my native DAW, it is too much of a headache to try and get it to behave like a more linear DAW such as Ableton/Studio One/Cubase. Everyone seems so happy with FL 21 and I couldn't be more disappointed. It is just a gloried and ornamented toy. The Piano Roll is the only feature they're more or less gotten "right" (give or take a few gripes about it)
That was way back in the past because there wasn´t a compiler for delphi for 64bit a decade ago so IL was late to the 64bit party...eerie_audio wrote: Wed Aug 16, 2023 6:26 pmThe problem is coupled with the programming language. You have to keep in mind that the program was written a long time ago in a 32 bit environment with a programming language other than C, C++, etc. This along with the spaghetti code as you mention, is a recipe for a life time of bugs and fixes at a snails pace.Trancit wrote: Wed Aug 16, 2023 3:31 pm The problem isn´t the programming language but how Gol puzzeld this thingie together...
The problems which need to be adressed to be able to make changes are so deeply rooted in the progamm core that this has to be changed at core level first to open the programm up for future ideas and being able to implement them more modular...
This is (afaik) why it takes so long time... changing nearly everything under the hood and under it´s hood...
I think most FLS users feel the same... there are real showstoppers you just want throw the machine out of the window... and looking over the fence what others got makes you very frustrated...but damn... there are so much nice things... this programm has so much charme and parts working so well that there simply isn´t an alternative on the market.Caine123 wrote: Thu Aug 17, 2023 7:54 am FL studio definitely lacks proper and basic features still, they added the Audio cross fade and in option finally with 21.... late but wayyy too late, still whoever needed this feature already switched daws or didnt even bother with fl studio.
im glad they finally care for these things more and more seems the dev crew had problems with the code (or still have?) and get things together. FL Studio also got a big performance push some time with FL 20 i think. this is where i was about to switch DAWs, i got Bitwig, Ableton and Studio one, admittely i didnt spend much time with them still and can realize a lot of fast ideas in FL Studio, what i love is the piano roll, i just love to fiddle around with it and NO OTHER DAW which i have has this fluid piano roll, something i just dont understand. it seems easY? but after writing support to some they dont understand the differences... so i gave up. i might have switched the DAW if the piano roll would be better with some others cause automating in FL Studio still sucks, and i hope they somehow find solutions. to have better automations like in Ableton is just awesome. or easier mods like in bitwig. in fl studio these tings are so fiddly .... still i love it.
.:me silently wispering you in the night while dreaming:.Trancit wrote: Thu Aug 17, 2023 8:55 amI think most FLS users feel the same... there are real showstoppers you just want throw the machine out of the window... and looking over the fence what others got makes you very frustrated...but damn... there are so much nice things... this programm has so much charme and parts working so well that there simply isn´t an alternative on the market.Caine123 wrote: Thu Aug 17, 2023 7:54 am FL studio definitely lacks proper and basic features still, they added the Audio cross fade and in option finally with 21.... late but wayyy too late, still whoever needed this feature already switched daws or didnt even bother with fl studio.
im glad they finally care for these things more and more seems the dev crew had problems with the code (or still have?) and get things together. FL Studio also got a big performance push some time with FL 20 i think. this is where i was about to switch DAWs, i got Bitwig, Ableton and Studio one, admittely i didnt spend much time with them still and can realize a lot of fast ideas in FL Studio, what i love is the piano roll, i just love to fiddle around with it and NO OTHER DAW which i have has this fluid piano roll, something i just dont understand. it seems easY? but after writing support to some they dont understand the differences... so i gave up. i might have switched the DAW if the piano roll would be better with some others cause automating in FL Studio still sucks, and i hope they somehow find solutions. to have better automations like in Ableton is just awesome. or easier mods like in bitwig. in fl studio these tings are so fiddly .... still i love it.
I cannot count how often I struggled to escape... it´s like being addicted to a drug you cannot get away from.
Perhaps some day I really stop fighting against it and should surrender to my fate...
No... while I basically like Reaper, it´s far to cumbersome and nerdy for me besides the UI issues...Frankie.T wrote: Fri Aug 18, 2023 6:25 am .:me silently wispering you in the night while dreaming:.
...join Reaper, join Reaper....
This is exactly the point for me in FLS... If I am honest to myself I cannot answer this question with a convincing "Yes"...Plus for us also "do you have fun with your tools?"
Ultrasmooth takes quite a lot of CPU as well... I have that turned off by default and don´t notice any differences in terms of a more "unsmooth" GUI...xbitz wrote: Fri Aug 18, 2023 9:14 am ...Without the 'General Setting/Ultrasmoth,' which reduces the UI framerate to 30 fps, ...
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