FL Studio over Reaper?

[N__K]

[mispost, feel free to delete]

[replicant X]

deleted

[audiojunkie]

Can someone convince me to use FL Studio instead of Reaper? My main DAW is Reaper, fully customized and all that but I have unused license of FL Studio laying around.
Saw lots of youtube videos about FL studio, features etc but nothing makes me want to really digging into it. Am I missing something in FL Studio?

Sorry, no. I can't convince you to use something that no longer stands out amongst the others. They are now a corporate-run entity like Native Instruments and it really shows.

FL Studio has gone monolithic and lost its respected indie roots. They've killed off their VST plugins, so that you can't use them in other DAWs anymore--they can ONLY be used in FL Studio. They are no longer using consumer friendly copy protection--they've moved to a Challenge/Response model. Over all, aside from the "free upgrades for life", they are pretty much like any other corporate developer out there.

Reaper, on the other hand, has stuck to its indie roots and I love it! Cockos has earned more money from me than any other DAW developer, simply because I keep coming back and paying, every time there is a new version released. Reaper is solid, and has solid support. It uses serial copy protection, is reasonably priced. It supports all major operating systems and architectures (including Linux and ARCH), and is pretty much a Swiss Army knife tool that can do pretty much anything needed.

You'll have to make your own decision on this one. FL Studio isn't bad--not at all. It just no longer stands out as something special to me--aside from the free updates for life.

[audiojunkie]

I don't believe it unless the OP can prove it. Who has a commercial unused license of FL Studio and continues to use Reaper?

*...calmly raises hand and looks straight at THE INTRANCER*

[audiojunkie]

The other computer referred to in the post you quote is the IL server that is required to activate the software. When those go down, you'll have no means of activating FL Studio on a new PC. The official solution is "use the crack" which is irony of the highest order.

Not true. You should be able to download the license file and use that to unlock FL Studio just like before.

You are missing the point of Challenge/Response authorization. If IL went under and closed its doors and turned off it's authorization servers, how would you get full access to the software you paid for?

[Blaster]

The other computer referred to in the post you quote is the IL server that is required to activate the software. When those go down, you'll have no means of activating FL Studio on a new PC. The official solution is "use the crack" which is irony of the highest order.

Not true. You can download the license file and use that to unlock FL Studio just like before.

Since version 20.9, that won't work on a new computer, because the machine ID and activation is tied to hardware. If/when you change the computer, you'll need IL's servers again.

20.8.4 is the last version with offline regkey that will work on any computer.


I suspect that Image-Line changed the method of app registering/activation because:

1. people in new markets (China etc.) were sharing regkeys and accounts on a massive scale
2. IL wanted to monitor usage of the app in general
3. IL as a company/tribe is getting too old for taking any sh*t from anyone on the basis of "do no evil"

The other computer referred to in the post you quote is the IL server that is required to activate the software. When those go down, you'll have no means of activating FL Studio on a new PC. The official solution is "use the crack" which is irony of the highest order.

Not true. You should be able to download the license file and use that to unlock FL Studio just like before.

And how will you download that file when the IL server no longer exists? Remember that the license file is now machine locked, so you can't just back up the file indefinitely like the regkey.

Oops, you are both right. I forgot it is machine locked. Sorry, ignore my message.

[eluherlu]

I don't believe it unless the OP can prove it. Who has a commercial unused license of FL Studio and continues to use Reaper?

I got FL Studio from some competition prize

[Trancit]

The other computer referred to in the post you quote is the IL server that is required to activate the software. When those go down, you'll have no means of activating FL Studio on a new PC. The official solution is "use the crack" which is irony of the highest order.

Not true. You should be able to download the license file and use that to unlock FL Studio just like before.

You are missing the point of Challenge/Response authorization. If IL went under and closed its doors and turned off it's authorization servers, how would you get full access to the software you paid for?

I will never get this point... If... and this is a huge if... they should ever in an overseeable future should close their doors ...what does an unsupported DAW will serve you for the future??

Nothing... an unsupported DAW is a dead DAW and you will have to leave the sinking ship anyway and move on to something else...
Does it really matters if you do it tomorrow or half a year later?

And even it it matters to you that you would need it for half a year or a year longer... it must be a huge coincidence that you change your computer exactly in the same moment as they shut down their servers...
As long as you use the same nothing happens and you can use the latest version on this machine until it dies...

Second, IL has always proven as a very very generous company... what does you get the impression that they aren´t just removing this challenge/response part for a very last version and let you for the future use your reg code only again if they leave business??

[Frankie.T]

The other computer referred to in the post you quote is the IL server that is required to activate the software. When those go down, you'll have no means of activating FL Studio on a new PC. The official solution is "use the crack" which is irony of the highest order.

Not true. You should be able to download the license file and use that to unlock FL Studio just like before.

You are missing the point of Challenge/Response authorization. If IL went under and closed its doors and turned off it's authorization servers, how would you get full access to the software you paid for?

I will never get this point... If... and this is a huge if... they should ever in an overseeable future should close their doors ...what does an unsupported DAW will serve you for the future??

Nothing... an unsupported DAW is a dead DAW and you will have to leave the sinking ship anyway and move on to something else...
Does it really matters if you do it tomorrow or half a year later?

Second, IL has always proven as a very very generous company... what does you get the impression that they aren´t just removing this challenge/response part for a very last version and let you for the future use your reg code only again if they leave business??

Let me try to hopefully help you to understand this sentiment.

Things always change, for worse or the better, but changes are sure to happens. You just need to take a look at history, not just human, but also costumes, politics and companies too, as the authorization mode for FL.

I don't think anyone thinks IL is "evil" or have some shady plans to close everythings and leave to a beautiful island. Anyway everythings can happen (remember things change)

Now i just want to remember the Waves move from few months ago. Sure they had to partially change their mind cause of the fuss on forums. Anyway since their auth method, they could just lock away people from what they have bought.
And this is certainly not good.

An unsupported DAW, plugin or whatever is never a good news. Anyway till that unsupported piece of software doesn't require any external authorization you can still use it to load your older projects. If in the future Windows 18 they will drop compatibilities for whatever reason, you can still install an older win version in an old pc or a VM, to run your software.
Why do you may need that? Because you may want to re-mix your song, or maybe just finish a demo you worked a decade before.

For someone this is an issue, while for someone else is not. We are 8 bilions, it's natural. I cannot force companies to do something different more than asking, but the decision is not mine, i can just vote with my wallet, and in a polite way with my keyboard, let them know about it.


In the original forum there was i post i opened about that, trying to understand that decision they made because of piracy that went out of control (and i understand it). They wrote crackers need few weeks from few months to crack it with the new method, so have some months of advantages, it makes a difference.

Since i'm the first one who want a company to be healthy, expecially a company who develop a software i use, i asked them if would be possible for people who ask for it, to have in their account a full year older version that use just the key file, since at the scenario (they wrote it), crackers needs just few months, so i was even more conservative. At the end i don't need to use the latest shiny version, but i need to use something i can have the control of.

You know the reply?

They closed the topic without any reply.

Certainly not a good move from someone i should trust.
I want to underline that topic was not "out of control" the discussion was always polite from everyone.

[sjm]

I will never get this point... If... and this is a huge if... they should ever in an overseeable future should close their doors ...what does an unsupported DAW will serve you for the future??

Unsupported doesn't mean the same as "won't work". It just means "no more updates", at least if you are on Windows. If you've been more or less happy with the software for 15 years - like I have - you can just keep using it as is. FL Studio does what I need it to do. Sure, I'd like some things to be improved - but I'm using the software for what it can do today not what it might be able to do in 10 years.

If I ever want to move to something else, I can do that at my own pace, safe in the knowledge that I can still open and work on my projects without being beholden to a server owned by someone else.

I'm guessing you don't have much in the way of old software that you still value and use. Some of us do. Some of us are probably happier with the current state of our DAWs than others. So your mileage may vary when it comes to how soon you will want to move to something else when the vendor goes out of business. What nobody wants is to be locked our of their software and unable to work on old projects - maybe decades down the line, even if it's just for the lulz - just because someone somewhere didn't have the funds to pay for a server.

[Carbonboy]

I can't imagine any scenario where their servers would go dead without some sort of legacy code being made for customers. And how long do you think it would be before a crack would appear. There are cracks already.

If their servers actually die pemanebrly then its likely to be part of some bigger problem. Facebook and your Google account are probably also dead. Say hello to WWIII or end of days.

This is not a real problem.

Do you worry that petrol will no longer be available for your car?

[Carbonboy]

On topic. Get both FL Studio and Reaper. More is better.

[Frankie.T]

I can't imagine any scenario where their servers would go dead without some sort of legacy code being made for customers. And how long do you think it would be before a crack would appear. There are cracks already.

If their servers actually die pemanebrly then its likely to be part of some bigger problem. Facebook and your Google account are probably also dead. Say hello to WWIII or end of days.

This is not a real problem.

Do you worry that petrol will no longer be available for your car?

Is still possible i.e. they are being aquired by a bigger companies like it was with Ozone and Native Instruments, then this company may want to sqeeze more money going full subscription only and you cannot activate anymore the version you already have.

This is very far to be a weird possibilities, cause tbh subscription is the route lots of companies has gotten in the latest years.

Or maybe FL as a service. After Fl 21, 22 and 23 we get "FL 365" Where you have all the new shiny features without the need to install it on your pc.. or whatever it may happens cause that's how the world goes.

Someone is even talking about at Windows as a service, a kind of Online Windows 365, and that's an OS, so it's even more weird but this is not my immagination but an actual service
https://www.microsoft.com/windows-365

Things keep changing, that's our nature and for sure it's how business works.

Someone will just face problems when/if happens, someone, usually more experienced/old like myself, already faced that kind of problems with other companies and isn't happy to make the same mistake again, better safe than sorry.

[sjm]

I can't imagine any scenario where their servers would go dead without some sort of legacy code being made for customers.

I actually asked the team about this. The risk of a takeover is real as mentioned above too. My request to IL was relatively simple: code it so that, if necessary, a DRM-free version can be made available and include this provision in the EULA. You want this to be part of the standard development process, because if the company is in the process of winding down or being bought, there will be far more important things to do than strip out any DRM-related code; and any new owner is going to take a horribly dim view of what they may perceive as a weakening of the value of their acquisition if you suddenly release a DRM-free version. This could open all sorts of legal cans of worms. But if you make it so that you can - at any time - create a DRM-free build at the click of the button, nobody needs to worry. If the servers are ever to go down, there will be a version you can use without the servers, at a point in time where IL have no concerns about piracy themselves.

Furthermore, if the EULA says that a DRM-free version will be made available under certain circumstances, anyone who acquires the business will also have to take on these responsibilities. They can always change the EULA after the acquisition, but the obligations up until that point are assumed by the new owner.

IL's response was similar to yours and others in this thread "this isn't a problem", "companies never go bust", "I'll personally strip out the DRM in 2 days despite having no idea how it's implemented", "just use the crack". None of those responses treats these concerns as valid nor acknowledges them. Not a good look IMO, and not exactly confidence inspiring.

And how long do you think it would be before a crack would appear. There are cracks already.

That is in fact official policy, which is quite ironic. Personally I'd prefer not to do that because of the potential risk of using a crack with something nasty included. For now, my solution is to just keep on using 20.8.4, then I don't have to worry about any of this, as that version will work indefinitely and does exactly what I need it to. If that ever changes, I'll deal with it when it becomes an issue.

If their servers actually die pemanebrly then its likely to be part of some bigger problem.

This is incredibly naive. History is littered with software companies that go bust with no way to (officially/legally depending on where you live) activate your software. There are hundreds of threads here on KVR alone about software no longer working because it used C/R and the devs went AWOL.

Do you worry that petrol will no longer be available for your car?

I don't have a car, and the future is electric anyway, so no. But getting locked out of your car is already a thing right now due to humanity's sudden love for introducing unnecessary single points of failure. Doesn't matter how much petrol you have if you can't open the door and drive it.

[Trancit]

Let me try to hopefully help you to understand this sentiment.

Things always change, for worse or the better, but changes are sure to happens. You just need to take a look at history, not just human, but also costumes, politics and companies too, as the authorization mode for FL.

...

Unsupported doesn't mean the same as "won't work". It just means "no more updates", at least if you are on Windows. If you've been more or less happy with the software for 15 years - like I have - you can just keep using it as is. FL Studio does what I need it to do. Sure, I'd like some things to be improved - but I'm using the software for what it can do today not what it might be able to do in 10 years.

...

Sorry guys... I don´t buy that... how many of us all would surrender to a DAW which will not get any updates anymore...
It´s the center station of your whole work and we all want to have the newest and best toys...

You might want to work with it a bit more but as more as you see other products moving forewards while you stand still will force you sooner or later to move on...

As for backwards compatibility there is an easy fix...
Render stems of your projects and save the midi clips, presets and you are good to go...
Backwards compatibility is anyway a myth on it´s own...
Do you have still the same plugins (which themselves never broke backwards compatibilty) installed on your actual machine like you had 10 years ago???
I highly doubt this and this will partly make your attempt fail anyway...
Rendering out stems and saving midi files is the only way to keep some backward compatibility over a longer period of time so that´s for me not an argument either....

Anyway... it is what it is and we will not change it if we like it or not... so no need to heat up our brains on stuff we can not influence in any way...