FL Studio over Reaper?

[Frankie.T]

Is not about keep using the same daw for newer project, is about have a daw you can install and use to load older one, while you work with a more user respectful daw on your newer projects

[Trancit]

Is not about keep using the same daw for newer project, is about have a daw you can install and use to load older one, while you work with a more user respectful daw on your newer projects

Perhaps I cannot understand this because I would never ever work this way...

Again nonetheless it is what it is and it will not change to an easier mode anymore... you will not convince them to remove their new protection (which seems to work extraordinary well) ever again.

But at the very end you are lucky... IL is most likely one of the least which will go broke and this means you can use your "old" DAW on as many older projects as you like for still a very very long time...

[sjm]

Again nonetheless it is what it is and it will not change to an easier mode anymore... you will not convince them to remove their new protection (which seems to work extraordinary well) ever again.

I wouldn't mind the CP if they implemented it in a way that would allow a DRM-free version to be deployed in the worst case scenario btw. That would actually solve both IL's desire for a more strict copy protection scheme and safeguard our investment in the DAW (monetary, but above all time). It's sad to see IL moving away from caring about their customers and caring more about those who aren't customers.

It doesn't actually have to be either/or. They could just show a little respect to those of us who are paying customers, take our concerns seriously and understand where they are coming from - then find a solution that works for all parties. It's actually not that hard, they just don't care.

[Trancit]

I wouldn't mind the CP if they implemented it in a way that would allow a DRM-free version to be deployed in the worst case scenario btw. ...

Who knows... perhaps they will do exactly that when one day they should really close their DAWs...

[harryupbabble]

polygamy and blasphemy
just rhymes with me

me gots no spare time
me gots no spare money
me gots no spare brain

[sjm]

I wouldn't mind the CP if they implemented it in a way that would allow a DRM-free version to be deployed in the worst case scenario btw. ...

Who knows... perhaps they will do exactly that when one day they should really close their DAWs...

The problem here is that this needs to happen beforehand; once it is too late, it is too late. There are basically 2 scenarios that instantly come to mind as worrying.

Scenario 1 is that Image-Line go out of business. AFAIK, the team are not employees, but contractors. That means that if things go tits up, things can happen real fast, with everything that costs any sort of money being switched off and contracts terminated. That doesn't necessarily leave anyone time to make these changes - they might not even be able to access the source code. Obviously we can only speculate; but why wouldn't you want the software to be designed so that all that is needed is for someone to change the value of a single parameter in the build process and out comes a version without DRM? It seems so strange to argue against your own interests as a consumer. IL can argue against it because that is effort they need to put in (largely down to them having failed to consider this before they implemented the new system; if they had, it probably would be a lot less work).

The other scenario is that IL get acquired by another company. Nobody knows what will happen then. Maybe development will cease entirely, the devs get moved to other projects, the servers get turned off. It goes Apple/Windows only. It gets turned into an app on some app store. These things happen all the time. Again, why wouldn't you want to protect yourself from this?

The thing is, there are actually solutions in place to deal with these sort of things. Here's another post on the subject to save me having to write it all again...

Update the EULA with measures in place to safeguard our ability to use the software in the event that IL go out of business. Ideally some sort of software escrow or similar process in place to provide access to a DRM-free version/the source code in the event of a worst case scenario.

That's the biggest risk for us users associated with this move: we're handing over the keys to our software to a third party, with no guarantee that our investment is safe. Previously, we could just back up the installer and regkey and were good to go. Nobody seems to have addressed this elephant in the room at IL yet (it has been asked before).

Why does this need to be in the EULA? Because it's binding for both parties, and any party that should possibly acquire IL in the future.

Yes, I know you have no intention of going out of business any time soon, but it's an inevitability that IL will go out of business one day, because no company lasts forever. Not being able to install FL because the servers will go poof one day is a valid concern, and one that only affects those users who have actually bought the software.

That's not asking for something unrealistic. It's something a lot of companies already do to protect their customers. The escrow services already exist, if needed. The ability to add switched in the codebase is already there. It just needs someone to actually take these steps. Arguing against this is essentially arguing against your own interests. This isn't the same as saying "OMG REMOVE THE COPY PROTECTION RIGHT NO THIS IS TERRIBLE", it's a compromise that gives everyone what they want. IL get to implement the new copy protection system. Users get the security of knowing that whatever happens, they will be able to install and activate the software indefinitely like they could with the regkey.

[vurt]

I wouldn't mind the CP if they implemented it in a way that would allow a DRM-free version to be deployed in the worst case scenario btw. ...

Who knows... perhaps they will do exactly that when one day they should really close their DAWs...

you seem quite sure they are in no danger, however, i think you are missing something important.

free updates for life. so current customers aren't adding money to the coffers, fine. there will always be new beginners...
i think we can all agree, fls ease of use makes it a prime target for beginners, especially those looking to make beats today!!! with little to no musical background.
the latter will always gravitate to the easiest proposition, which soon will be the chatgpt of audio.
so unless they can compete with a quick typed prompt, they are going to lose a lot of their customers going forward.
but adding that, could also put off the other more serious beginners...

so sadly nothing is set in stone as far as success going forward.

[Trancit]

I think you are both worrying too much...

IL was already bought by an investment group some time ago...
Since then they bought W.A production, Melda production and UVI...
I don´t think they are financially in any trouble... most likely the opposite is true...
Even a higher NI official has moved to them and is the new CEO or something like this...

[liquidsound]

Even a higher NI official has moved to them and is the new CEO or something like this...

[vurt]

I think you are both worrying too much...

actually, i couldn't be less worried about this if i tried, i don't use fl, never have since i demoed it 20 or so years ago and chose something else.

i just think things are changing and you can't be as certain about anything as you seem to be

[audiojunkie]

I wouldn't mind the CP if they implemented it in a way that would allow a DRM-free version to be deployed in the worst case scenario btw. ...

Who knows... perhaps they will do exactly that when one day they should really close their DAWs...

you seem quite sure they are in no danger, however, i think you are missing something important.

free updates for life. so current customers aren't adding money to the coffers, fine. there will always be new beginners...
i think we can all agree, fls ease of use makes it a prime target for beginners, especially those looking to make beats today!!! with little to no musical background.
the latter will always gravitate to the easiest proposition, which soon will be the chatgpt of audio.
so unless they can compete with a quick typed prompt, they are going to lose a lot of their customers going forward.
but adding that, could also put off the other more serious beginners...

so sadly nothing is set in stone as far as success going forward.

Not that it is likely to happen, but I believe that the most likely scenario would be IL being purchased/merged by a different company and their "Free Updates For Life" no longer apply, since that was the promise of IL, not the new purchaser. Then releasing a new version for a fee. Then, turning off the old authentication servers for older versions. Suddenly, within a short period of time, you suddenly can't reauthenticate without forking over the requested upgrade fee.

There is already a sort of premise for this. Remember what Native Instruments did with Kontakt? It was almost exactly this.

If IL wanted to, they could come up with a new version and rebrand it with a different name, and then say that since it is a different product, the free updates for life only applied to the FL Studio product. There is precedent for this too. Apple has bought several companies, integrated the components into a larger product, and killed off the original product and ended support for it. Everything is possible.

For me though, my stance goes way beyond all of this, and it is not even directed at Imageline. I've always felt that the honest customers are the ones that get punished and force to go through the DRM hoops, and the pirates don't have to worry at all--just download the product from a wares site and off they go. The whole idea bothers me. Intrusive copy protection bothers me. Read my Sig line below. I've had it attached for years, and I still believe it.

EDIT: I realize I started posting on Vurt's post. I wasn't aiming my comments at you, Vurt. I was just speaking to the thread in general. I accidentally quoted instead of just posting a fresh comment. Sorry about that.

[audiojunkie]

Even a higher NI official has moved to them and is the new CEO or something like this...

I must admit, seeing how NI is doing these days, I found this comment ironic.

[tapiodmitriyevich]

Reaper over Studio One over FL is how it went for me. Bought FL license 125 years ago, it's not installed.
I love Reapers flexibility. I wish the param modulation LFO would be more sophisticated, it's pretty basic.
Aww, and so many jsfx gems.

[vurt]

Bought FL license 125 years ago, it's not installed.

[vurt]

EDIT: I realize I started posting on Vurt's post. I wasn't aiming my comments at you, Vurt. I was just speaking to the thread in general. I accidentally quoted instead of just posting a fresh comment. Sorry about that.