Cassette Saturation

[zebrasive]

Hi all, had a question for anyone with familiarity with recording to tape.. I’ve been wanting to delve into using tape to add more analog warmth to my sounds. I considered reel-to-reel after discovering it earlier this week, but I think now that a cassette deck could serve my purpose here. Does anyone have any recommendations on what hardware to use for this? I was looking into cheap walkman-type devices, but I’m thinking I’m going to want something with stereo capabilities, like a Tascam 122mkii showed up a lot in my research. I saw there’s also the modern Tascam 202mkvii. Not really sure where to start, so any help is appreciated!

[lfm]

Did you consider a tape emulating plugin instead maybe?
- Waves Mastertape or something else

But if to go hardware route I think you should look at some things
- get a defluxer for tape heads, makes incredible difference if used machine
- learn to adjust bias current to head for the tape you are using

Procedure is
- clean tape head and capstan thoroughly and everywhere tape flows through
- get a service manual to know where to adjust bias unless visible on panel somewhere
- record 1 kHz sine and then 10 kHz sine, maybe 15s each, both channels
- check levels playing these back on oscilloscope or multimeter
- they should be equal, or to lower highs increase bias or vice versa

then you will not loose general quality with the tape procedure.
- low noise floor as possible
- just gain some harmonics making it nicer

I would drop idea of walkman stuff. If you care about your mixes this much to do this, do it right.

[egbert101]

Yes, I think real tape is a waste of time. If you want a "lofi" sound there are hundreds of paid plugins that can do it for you. There are also a lot of really excellent free "lofi" tape emulation plugins. For example Cymatics Origin, or ChowDSP Chow Tape Model.

[GuyaGuy]

It depends on what you're after. If you want tape as a lo-fi warbly noisy effect, then any dictaphone can do the job.

If you want tape to add just a bit subtle saturation without the noise floor, you'll need to spend quite a bit more. I use an old Vestax and it is kind of the best of both worlds. It has time/pitch control for warble and preamps that can drive nicely. But it also has features like dbx noise reduction for more pro sounds.

[zebrasive]

It depends on what you're after. If you want tape as a lo-fi warbly noisy effect, then any dictaphone can do the job.

If you want tape to add just a bit subtle saturation without the noise floor, you'll need to spend quite a bit more. I use an old Vestax and it is kind of the best of both worlds. It has time/pitch control for warble and preamps that can drive nicely. But it also has features like dbx noise reduction for more pro sounds.

I think the latter, something more subtle that you just "feel." Would the Tascams I mentioned do the trick?

[zebrasive]

I'm drawing a lot of inspiration from Jai and AK Paul. I saw AK Paul posted this on his instagram a while ago and it's the first time I made a connection that the hardware probably helped them achieve their sound more efficiently.

[pekbro]

I like the Chase Bliss Generation Loss Mk 2 for tape saturation and effects quite a lot.

*Particularly if you have ableton live so you can modulate it in interesting ways. Sounds
better than any plugin ive used imo, tho i havent tried them all.

[GuyaGuy]

It depends on what you're after. If you want tape as a lo-fi warbly noisy effect, then any dictaphone can do the job.

If you want tape to add just a bit subtle saturation without the noise floor, you'll need to spend quite a bit more. I use an old Vestax and it is kind of the best of both worlds. It has time/pitch control for warble and preamps that can drive nicely. But it also has features like dbx noise reduction for more pro sounds.

I think the latter, something more subtle that you just "feel." Would the Tascams I mentioned do the trick?

Probably but I don't have any direct experience with them. I've only used the TASCAM Portastudio, which is more lo-fi.

[ChamomileShark]

I think the latter, something more subtle that you just "feel." Would the Tascams I mentioned do the trick?

I think if you are looking for subtle I wouldn't go for cassete or even a cheap reel to reel. Back in the 80s I used to do everything on reel to reel tape. I kept a ReVox A77 quarter inch which after it caught fire a couple of years back I've now had fully restored and recalibrated by an expert in A77s.

I then ran some digital mixes into it, bounced it all back and compared the difference. It was alot more than I expected, not really subtle at all. I could hear EQ, saturation and I could see compression in the waveform. The ReVox A77 was a high end consumer product but plenty of musicians used them back in the day.

Unless you really are a glutton for punishment I'd suggest you get some software emulations for subtle. Something like U-he Satin or Toneboosters tape thing for a R2R emulation.

Maybe get some cheap cassette machines just for fun.

[JerGoertz]

The IK tape emulations are good for adding some tape mojo without necessarily sounding over-the-top. Also I think Softube Tape is pretty good for this, as are the Acustica Audio stuff (Taupe and various Nebula, Taipei is highly regarded).

Of course, not saying you should choose these over the actual physical tapedecks you're investigating.

[zebrasive]

Really appreciate the insights from everyone.

[Jafo]

VHS might be worth a try, but wow, is it lo-fi.

[kritikon]

I'd agree with ChamomileShark, you can't do subtle with a cassette. They are incredibly crappy sound quality. Anyone telling you they use cassette tape as an effect is going for real dirty lo-fi or they're simply bullshitting (like an awful lot of YT nonsense). I used to use pretty decent quality player/recorders and none of them were great. Had access to a Nakamichi which was definitely better if used well but still lo-fi compared even to reeltoreel (and as mentioned many of those aren't a patch on digital). A good 2" reeltoreel can compare to CD though.

Your average cassette tape recorder is not that far away from recording through a phone. Just for a bit of effect I'd concur with plugin use. Cheaper, better, won't completely f**k up your audio. There's an awful lot of absolute crap spouted about analogueness on places like YT etc, especially about tape.

From wiki - "At low recording levels (-20 dB referred to nominal level) all quality tapes can reliably reproduce frequencies from 30 Hz to 16 kHz, which is sufficient for high fidelity audio.[14] However, at high recording levels treble output is further limited by saturation. At Dolby recording level the upper frequency limit shrinks to a value between 8 kHz for a typical chromium dioxide tape, and 12 kHz for metal tapes; in case of chromium dioxide, this is partially offset by very low hiss levels."
At those low recording levels that make an acceptable sound, they're not saturating. High enough to saturate and you lose an awful lot of very audible frequency.

That is even without wow/flutter/dirty heads/decrepit old machineness. Lots of us oldies have nostalgia about old gear, lots young and old still want analogue gear, but there is nothing whatsoever to be nostalgic for with cassette tape. Really. They're shit, simple as that - even low bandwidth MP3 is better. Many of these plugins don't actually sound like cassette tape unless you push them extremely hard, and most people are horrified what they hear when they do that. Cassette tapes are not subtle.

[jethrobull]

As suggested, Uhe Satin is the GOAT. Lots of parameters to play with and does something magical I've not heard in any other tape emu.
The real thing is too much hassle at this point for me

[legendCNCD]

Wavesfactory Cassette for C & dicta.
I've done once running a heavily overspiked & boosted drumtrack to c-cassette using hot signal and then sampled it back to DAW, parallel mixed it with original (had to do very little of adjusting).
Sounded great unfortunately I dont have a deck anymore.