why does my Full Export sound different to my Layer Export?

[Caine123]

i have deleted the original post and added now the FULL step by step list

here are ALL my steps! i cannot be the first one to find these problems?

1. here is the video which shows a simple beatloop then divided each melody to 1 pattern and each instrument to 1 playlist entry. you see i didnt mix these at all, but i added the effects to the master channel and overcompressed to show the issue, and the issue seems to be the master channel.

VIDEO
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/prbqqp3z ... of9et&dl=0

2. my export of the FULL Song File (Attached as WAV) with the Export settings



3. Now i split the mixer tracks and it seems EVEN the ENABLE MASTER effects it switched it IT ISNT thats why it is greyed out? (confusing!)



4. i then imported in a new project without! any effects on any mixer channel! the stems excluding the CURRENT & MASTER files.



5. then i exported these as one WAV file



6. i imported the original Exported full song file with all the effects and now the new summed STEMS file into AUDACITY, top MASTER bottom SUMMED STEMS



im getting angry and hit my door

7. ok so i learned it seems from another forum that these stems are not effected by the MASTER! it seems. so what did i do? i opened the project where i have these so called STEMS which seem unaffected by the master, and imported the original MASTER FX CHAIN.



8. now i export this project with MASTER FX enabled of course.



9. now back to Audacity top my Original Master full export and BOTTOM my new STEMS + Master Effects export

again, not the same.... better but not the same!



10. ok i learned to export the layers with this option and open my ORIGINAL project and export it this way





it now takes a lot longer, it exports every layer seperately.

11. now i import all these EFFECTED STEMS into FL Studio and export unaltered!







12. Now Original MASTER File top and BOTTOM the NEW exported with effected seperate STEMS



WTF is happening!!!! im getting to go nuts. NO VERSION is exactly like the original exported song. not the split mixer tracks and the other option to export all playlist tracks with the master effects. this cannot be!

thx

[BertKoor]

What I see is a difference in loudness. Top is compressed & limited, the bottom is not.

So me thinks the master has mastering fx, the layers export does not

[vurt]

could be bus compression, if you separate the things going to the bus comp, then it will hit the threshold differently, staying compressed for longer on the grouped files, than it would on the individuals?

[Caine123]

updated my first post with a new example and all channel presentations etc thx

[BertKoor]

You can edit, but I stand by my pov: what I see is a difference in loudness.

[Caine123]

ok seems someone from another forum found the answer?
WHEN you choose SPLIT MIXER Tracks via export as WAV the ENABLE MASTER Eddects is lit but greyed out... so it seems this doesnt apply master effects on the STEMS..... kinda confusing?

you need to use this option?


ok, so but this means if i have the LAYERS without MASTER EFFECTS, they should be summed and when i want them the same sound with the master effects i should just add the Master chain to the layers? not?

but then it still isnt the same top correct export and bottom summed layers + master chain added on top.



what is going on?

is it the same in other DAWs?

[Caine123]

i added a FULL step by step list in my first post and deleted all previous examples

[elassi]

What Vurt said: your master channel contains a lot of volume-dependent FX.

If you need the stems (as a package) to sound the same as when being mixed in your DAW, avoid using FX on the master channel at all.

[xalama qo]

One stem/track going into the master effects (especially if it's compressor/limiter) will cause a totally different response in that master effect to a bus of say 8 tracks, where there's a lot of dynamic interaction going on.
So exporting each stem separately thru the master chain and then mixing down with no master chain will absolutely be different to running 8 uneffected stems thru 1 master chain. The signal/program material hitting the master chain is much more complex and this will affect your compression attack and recovery levels all over the place. The effect is usually described as more glue. The different elements meld together better because the compressor etc is responding to the whole shebang, not each element in separation.
Hope this helps.

[Caine123]

thx but i think you misunderstood me?

what is the difference between these 2 methods?

a) project with 10 instruments each in seperate mixer channels all mixed to taste. then in the same project i enable the master bus and add e.g. eq + comp + maybe some eq balancer + limiter -> export to full track

b) project with 10 instruments each in seperate mixer channels all mixed to taste. then i export EACH layer/Stem with enabled mixer effects and NO MASTER BUS enabled to a seperate WAV File (10 wav files).
then i import them in a new project (maybe because my cpu is not powerful enough to do all in one project) and enable ONLY the master bus with the SAME master bus effects as in Version A -> export to full track

shouldnt version A and B be the same?

[No_Use]

edit

[xalama qo]

Have to say that the last image you posted the 2 tracks look very very similar. Make sure you're comparing the left track of the one to the left track of the other, not right track of the first to the left track of the second just because they're closest.
I'm tempted to say that the differences you see in the graphic waveform are just quirks in the rendering. But I don't know enough about image rendering and what "economy" shortcuts a program like Audacity might take.
Do they sound significantly different? Because if I understand your final process correctly you should be arriving at pretty much the same result. And if they sound the same, I'd rather trust my ears and not the graphic waveform.
Can you inspect them in another DAW? Download the demo of Reaper perhaps?
Or do those 2 tracks actually sound different to you when you're not looking at them?

[xalama qo]

Yup, I think I got u now, u should be getting the same result with your final method

[No_Use]

If you have free running modulators/LFOs that could also make a (probably not huge but still noticeable) difference.