Fast but musical compressor?

[simon.a.billington]

SPL Iron, Elysia Mpressor, Waves DPR-402 & API 2500, Lindell SBC, IK Comprexxor

[cron]

TDR Kotelnikov https://www.tokyodawn.net/tdr-kotelnikov/

Kotelnikov is very underrated when it comes to its ability to tame the unruliest audio. Perhaps the ‘mastering compressor’ marketing primes people to think that’s the only domain where it excels. I’ve saved some truly wild outputs from CDP that troubled the noise floor of 24-bit wav with it.

[Igro]

Arturia VCA-65 or Waves DBX-160

[simon.a.billington]

Arturia VCA-65 or Waves DBX-160

Both good compressors. While the 65 is more flexible than the 160, the 160 does have an iconic thing about it.

[MadDogE134]

wth is a 'musical' compressor?

[DCrown]

Waves Renaissance Compressor
Two Compressor types, incredibly good,
simple, effective, musical on music tracks

[bmanic]

wth is a 'musical' compressor?

Technically it most likely means a compressor that is program dependent. A compressor that alters it's release and sometimes also the threshold and ratio depending on the program material going into the unit. This results in "effortless" compression that fits the original incoming signal.

Sometimes these program dependencies can lead to the original signal feeling more coherent, more groovy and thus more "musical".

[MadDogE134]

so a 2A type two knob thing. (not always opto) i figured when people say that it being 'musical' meaning it adds (pleasing) harmonic content. not all harmonic content off the fundamental is 'pleasing' imo. many use that term also about an EQ which has none of what you described. but then again you have things like that 'surfer EQ' that dances the curves around. although i was given that 'boogie' free years back i never liked it.

was hoping the op would explain what they 'think' a musical comp is. to me... the term 'musical' is widely used and pretty much means nothing in reality... just pleasant to the user. i think 'musical' is somewhat subjective.

cheers

[Igro]

wth is a 'musical' compressor?

Technically it most likely means a compressor that is program dependent. A compressor that alters it's release and sometimes also the threshold and ratio depending on the program material going into the unit. This results in "effortless" compression that fits the original incoming signal.

Sometimes these program dependencies can lead to the original signal feeling more coherent, more groovy and thus more "musical".

I'm wondering, are there some vca style program dependent compressors (or fet fwiw)

[bmanic]

so a 2A type two knob thing. (not always opto) i figured when people say that it being 'musical' meaning it adds (pleasing) harmonic content. not all harmonic content off the fundamental is 'pleasing' imo. many use that term also about an EQ which has none of what you described. but then again you have things like that 'surfer EQ' that dances the curves around. although i was given that 'boogie' free years back i never liked it.

was hoping the op would explain what they 'think' a musical comp is. to me... the term 'musical' is widely used and pretty much means nothing in reality... just pleasant to the user. i think 'musical' is somewhat subjective.

cheers

Indeed it is entirely subjective but in my experience (which is rather extensive when it comes to dynamics processors) a "musical" compressor is one that is effortless in how it tames the dynamics. This also usually correlates with ease of use and a multitude of use cases, for instance full program material.

Perhaps a good way to differentiate these is to look at some very specific compressors that don't work all that well for complex signals. For instance the basic channel compressor on a SSL desk is not exactly "musical" as it doesn't behave all that nicely for complex signals but it can be awesome for the basic task of nailing down a sound or giving a lot of extra attack to drums/bass/percussion. Another example would be the basic DBX rack compressors (266/166 etc), when not in over-easy mode. They are quite basic and not exactly "musical" in terms of how they treat a signal but are super useful for specific tasks.

Good examples of extremely easy to use compressors are almost all Vari-Mu type units as they have a sort of built in mechanism of being useful and easy to use at almost any settings. Same with most Opto compressors. Due to their nature they are always highly program dependent, meaning the way they compress isn't at all linear in terms of timing constants and the amount of compression. Though to be fair, it is possible to make bad opto compressors too. Some of the guitar pedal stomp boxes are rather horrible in their action when used on complex program material, and quite a few of those are opto.

[bmanic]

wth is a 'musical' compressor?

Technically it most likely means a compressor that is program dependent. A compressor that alters it's release and sometimes also the threshold and ratio depending on the program material going into the unit. This results in "effortless" compression that fits the original incoming signal.

Sometimes these program dependencies can lead to the original signal feeling more coherent, more groovy and thus more "musical".

I'm wondering, are there some vca style program dependent compressors (or fet fwiw)

The most famous one is probably the SSL Bus Compressor. When set to it's 'auto' mode it's release stage is highly program dependent.

The 1176 is also program dependent in it's release.. but not sure how much though as the release is usually tweaked to be quite fast. In it's all-buttons-in mode it's extremely program dependent and frankly quite weird.

It's not always about the release or attack timings being program dependent. A transfer function can also be program dependent in a way that makes compression sound easy and effortless. For instance a compressor may compress quite a lot around the threshold but then slowly ease up in it's ratio as the signal gets louder and further above the threshold. A sort of S-shape.

The general rule for the most simple to do program dependency is to modify the release timing according to the length of time a signal is above threshold, allowing longer sustained sounds to have a slower release whereas fast transients get a faster release. This is basically what happens with an opto compressor, especially the old ones that use light bulbs and that weird light detector material. Sometimes it's called "a memory effect". Capacitors can also have this memory effect though it's usually a lot faster.

[Igro]

wth is a 'musical' compressor?

Technically it most likely means a compressor that is program dependent. A compressor that alters it's release and sometimes also the threshold and ratio depending on the program material going into the unit. This results in "effortless" compression that fits the original incoming signal.

Sometimes these program dependencies can lead to the original signal feeling more coherent, more groovy and thus more "musical".

I'm wondering, are there some vca style program dependent compressors (or fet fwiw)

The most famous one is probably the SSL Bus Compressor. When set to it's 'auto' mode it's release stage is highly program dependent.

The 1176 is also program dependent in it's release.. but not sure how much though as the release is usually tweaked to be quite fast. In it's all-buttons-in mode it's extremely program dependent and frankly quite weird.

It's not always about the release or attack timings being program dependent. A transfer function can also be program dependent in a way that makes compression sound easy and effortless. For instance a compressor may compress quite a lot around the threshold but then slowly ease up in it's ratio as the signal gets louder and further above the threshold. A sort of S-shape.

Right. Now another come to mind - Klanghelm DC8C in advanced mode. The attack, release and ratio. But they need to be tweaked manually.

[bmanic]

Anybody who is interested in exploring these avenues, if you own either Fabfilter Volcano or Saturn (or even Timeless 3) you can create your own program dependent compressors easily and quickly A/B compare a program dependent one versus a simple "linear" one.

What you do for the program dependent compressor is really simple:

1) You add one Envelope follower as the main gain reduction detector (hook it up to the main output volume knob)
2) Then you add a second EVF as a secondary gain reduction detector but with much slower constants
3) Then mix and match the amount of compression these two EVFs do

.. then compare this dual EVF compressor to a simple single EVF compressor.

And if you want to take it a step further, have the 2nd slow EVF modulate the attack and release timings of the 1st EVF. Now you have a simple yet truly complex program dependent compressor.

[bmanic]

Right. Now another come to mind - Klanghelm DC8C in advanced mode. The attack, release and ratio. But they need to be tweaked manually.

Indeed, DC8C has dedicated knobs for program dependency, in both directions (transients get either faster/slower attack and release, your choice).

Also it's transfer function isn't linear at all. It's quite a complex shape if I remember correctly.

[bmanic]

Inspired by the discussion I built a compressor in FabFilter Volcano3 that turned out really good! It has a separate slider for Program Dependency, meaning that you can completely turn off all program dependent behavior which forces EVF1 to be the only element doing the compression. When you turn up the Pr.Dep slider you get increased complex program dependency over everything (attack, release and transfer function). This allows you to quickly hear what it all does.

.. and it happens to be a quite useful and good sounding compressor preset, especially if you run it several times oversampled in Reaper.

Download link here (ZIP file, Google Drive)