Cytomic Synthesizer

[EvilDragon]

That does make a ton of sense

[zvenx]

My personal take on a Cytomic synth is this: for now, I'd rather see more Cytomic VCV modules rather than a standalone instrument? Why? Andy is capable of being downright prolific in VCV with about 2 filter modules released in the last few months (the Deopfer Wasp filter and now the Cytomic branded SEM). Seems like it's a good platform for releasing things easily.

Whereas the pace of development on Cytomic plugins is glacially slow by comparison (and we're talking about glaciers moving, not them melting). Seems like the boring stuff (manuals, website updates, framework updates, GUI code, etc.) seems to take up either a lot of time, or Andy would just rather use his time elsewhere, so the Cytomic standalone plugins see much slower progress. At least from the outside.

Whereas, all that research on the DSP-side that Andy seems to enjoy, appears to translate well to VCV Rack where new modules (aka "plugins") can be built, distributed, and sold very easily. So I'd take more VCV Rack modules that could be turned aronud quickly versus a synth which may take years if not another decade+ to see the light of day.

I wonder how quickly Andy could patch together some high quality analog oscillators with almost no aliasing that respond well to audio-rate, and some modeled VCA's, and an LFO and maybe another filter and bundle those as a single VCV Rack "plugin" for like $99. The building blocks of a Cytomic semi-modular. Bet that could happen a lot faster than a Cytomic semi-modular synth VST plugin. And I'd be all in.

As usual (well except for vst3 (inside joke)..lol) you make a lot of sense and said much better than I ever could what I was thinking.. that Andy probably finds the other stuff tedious...
Wish he could afford an assistant who could do that stuff and he concentrate on the dsp stuff he is excellent at.
rsp

[Frantz]

Whereas the pace of development on Cytomic plugins is glacially slow by comparison (and we're talking about glaciers moving, not them melting). Seems like the boring stuff (manuals, website updates, framework updates, GUI code, etc.) seems to take up either a lot of time, or Andy would just rather use his time elsewhere, so the Cytomic standalone plugins see much slower progress.

Andy should outsource the non-DSP work to Cherry Audio. They somehow bang out a new synth every week.

[zvenx]

Whereas the pace of development on Cytomic plugins is glacially slow by comparison (and we're talking about glaciers moving, not them melting). Seems like the boring stuff (manuals, website updates, framework updates, GUI code, etc.) seems to take up either a lot of time, or Andy would just rather use his time elsewhere, so the Cytomic standalone plugins see much slower progress.

Andy should outsource the non-DSP work to Cherry Audio. They somehow bang out a new synth every week.

Lol. Funny as hell but I suspect some will say 'too soon'..
lol
rsp

[Funky40]

My personal take on a Cytomic synth is this: for now, I'd rather see more Cytomic VCV modules rather than a standalone instrument? Why? Andy is capable of being downright prolific in VCV with about 2 filter modules released in the last few months (the Deopfer Wasp filter and now the Cytomic branded SEM). Seems like it's a good platform for releasing things easily.

agreed !

Andy says the sales at VCV plattform are small, though.
While i think, a complete synth has to compete with the whole market.
So, it had to be something very well made. Full fledged out. => timeintensiv to do, i suspect.
And i would stronly suspect that VCV will become very popular one day.
(they have there to sort some things first ! imho )

the "Cytomic" synth i´d like to see would be a cross, finally.
Take the Synthtech E370 WT VCO, add Cytomics VCF to it, and a nifty modulation section.
It would -for me- outperform everything.
There we are, VCV
edit: i´ll add some good cytomic analog VCOs to "my" synth, ofcourse

[andy-cytomic]

My personal take on a Cytomic synth is this: for now, I'd rather see more Cytomic VCV modules rather than a standalone instrument? Why? Andy is capable of being downright prolific in VCV with about 2 filter modules released in the last few months (the Deopfer Wasp filter and now the Cytomic branded SEM). Seems like it's a good platform for releasing things easily.

Unfortunately sales income generated from VCV Rack is very small, so small it's pretty much not worth it to spend time on since I actually lose money when compared to spending time developing my own plugins or licensing tech to Ableton etc. I do like the platform, but it's a chicken and the egg situation, people don't uses VCV Rack since it doesn't have the best sounding modules, so then sales are small so people don't bother spending time make the best sounding modules since they will lose money. Also the expectation that modules should be free or really cheap, much like the Mac DSP world, means people that do buy stuff won't spend much money. Also VCV Rack doesn't have presets, and most people just want to buy plugins with lots of presets so they don't have to do any work to get a bunch of different sounds, so then apply about 1% of the plugin market to the chicken and the egg situation and that people won't pay much for modules all adds up to a very small income stream from VCV Rack modules. Additionally if I release a module in VCV Rack it can now be used in a sampler or VA or effect plugin, basically I've cut off a bunch of possible further income streams for myself. The market being so small and people being so lazy means that doesn't matter too much, but it's there!

Whereas the pace of development on Cytomic plugins is glacially slow by comparison (and we're talking about glaciers moving, not them melting). Seems like the boring stuff (manuals, website updates, framework updates, GUI code, etc.) seems to take up either a lot of time, or Andy would just rather use his time elsewhere, so the Cytomic standalone plugins see much slower progress. At least from the outside.
...

I've been really low on vitamin B-12 (so low on energy) and helping out lots with the family, which has meant over the past 5 years or so I haven't had the mental or physical energy to do anything but:
* maintain customer support, and posting on forums to answer questions and let people know what I'm up to
* maintain the currently released plugins and doing minor bug fixes
* write and debug one of the worlds best SIMD wrappers with advanced features to support Intel / Arm / Linux (Linux is for embedded, not for plugins, but Linux is supported on VCV Rack modules)
* update to the latest version of Juce to support VST3 and macOS Arm
* fix bugs in the latest version of Juce so my plugins work properly
* deliver updates of new DSP to Ableton, of which the first has appeared in Drift filter mode II, the MS2 SD filter which they have finally supported the fully optimised f32x4 version I delivered ages ago to run 4 voices at once in parallel using SIMD
* update the authorisation system to be more stable on the plugin side
* learn Wordpress and re-write the entire web page using Wordpress instead of Drupal, including writing the theme, porting over all existing customer accounts and purchase information etc.
* implement the licensing and authorisation system in Wordpress (integrating with WooCommerce)
* finish the randomisation engine which can be applied to all plugins, but will first feature in The Scream
* write two of the most accurate filter emulations on the planet in the A-124 and CF100.
* do videos for both of those filters and help with promotion
* negotiate with multiple different companies for future licensing opportunities / collaborations
* update my circuit solving engine to handle new components (MOS-FETs and more advanced differential BJT macro models)
* invent new numerical methods to maintain stability at high frequencies of highly non-linear filter circuits (used in the A-124 and CF100)
* update my symbolic simplification engine to handle more advanced expressions, and cross function optimisations
* order new development machines for macOS and Win, and set them up for development
* update to using the latest versions of XCode and Visual Studio and configure older SDKs to work on these platforms
* etc etc...

So I have got stuff done, just not many new products, but now I'm taking really strong vitamin B12 supplements and have "more energy" (said in best Arne workout voice), and a bunch of framework slog out of the way (macOS ARM / VST3) the next couple of years is looking great.

Anyway, I hope that sheds some light on what's going on, and that unfortunately VCV is not the silver bullet and please don't expect many modules there before I release more of my own plugins. I would love if VCV Rack sales were much bigger, since I really like the platform.

[zvenx]

Thanks for sharing.
We believe in quality of your work (even when some of us, like me, gets frustated at the pace sometimes, ok often).
Looking forward to the next couple of years.
rsp

[Funkybot's Evil Twin]

Thanks for the reply and insight Andy! I'm glad the future looks bright. I'm sure word of new Cytomic filters sold some VCV Rack licenses so who knows? Maybe the platform will continue to grow with your help! Enough were new modules are worth it. I'm always looking forward to more from Cytomic. Rack, VST, whatever.

[dayjob]

thanks for sharing Andy. sometimes people forget all the things that go into being a small company and developer. your stuff is really amazing and i've used at least one of your plug ins on every song i've finished since i bought them so many years ago.

edit: i don't want to derail the thread with long descriptions of chronic health problems of various seriousness but i hope you're able to get whatever treatment and advice you need to deal with your health issues. it took years for the docs to figure out i had celiac and then only after being scoped and getting a biopsy.. but it was totally life changing once i had a diagnosis and could properly deal with things. best of luck to you going forward.

[zerocrossing]

Here’s what I personally would like to see in a Cytomic synth. Sort of a “Cypher 3” with some additions like different oscillator modes. Wavetable, samples, VCO emulation, anything interesting. Definitely make them modulation sources, or at least one of them. We know the filters will be great, so let’s hit them with some audio rate modulation! Feedback too, and modules to add various distortion types pre and post filters. It should purr and scream.

And of course, MPE would be a must, and polyphonic aftertouch. A lot of good modern instruments suffer from ignoring these, IMO. Massive X, Opal, etc. A modulation sequencer and wavetable LFO would also be welcome additions.

Some modularity would be nice, especially if it could add flexibility and keep CPU loads down on more basic patches. I’d hope to have at least 8 voices, though.

I personally don’t think it has to have a lot of effects, though a per voice delay would be nice for Karplus–Strong synthesis. Maybe a flexible modulation effect that can do chorus and flanger type effects, and of course some reverb, if for nothing else, to show off presets.

Anyway, those are my bleary, Monday morning ramblings.

Thanks for the feedback. That synth sounds like a Frankenstein's monster of every cobbled together sound generation, filtering, and modulation possible. Perhaps I could build up towards such a beast, but I'll most likely keep things a little more focussed and release multiple synths along the way until I can weld / stitch / bolt them together in such a way. Until then you can already do this sort of thing in VCV Rack, and get 16 voices of polyphony, but alas, if you make your own synth like this you also need to make your own presets!

I didn’t really say “every cobbled together sound generation.” I said, “ Wavetable, samples, VCO emulation, anything interesting.” Meaning, more than just wavetables or VA, but that would be OK too. I put “anything interesting” in there because there are quite a few synths out there with basic VA or wavetable oscillators.

[gentleclockdivider]

WHat the world needs is an 'Arp2600- MS20- Roland system 500 ' inspired cytomic modular

[suthnear]

I've been really low on vitamin B-12 (so low on energy) and helping out lots with the family, which has meant over the past 5 years or so I haven't had the mental or physical energy to do anything but:
<loads of things!>

Your low energy mode looks a lot more energetic than most people's high energy mode

[andy-cytomic]

I didn’t really say “every cobbled together sound generation.” I said, “ Wavetable, samples, VCO emulation, anything interesting.” Meaning, more than just wavetables or VA, but that would be OK too. I put “anything interesting” in there because there are quite a few synths out there with basic VA or wavetable oscillators.

I was being a bit facetious there, what you request is totally reasonable, but for me to tackle all those synthesis types to the level I expect would be a lot of work, so it would be good to generate income along the way by releasing synths with those things before the mega vultron combination synth (there I go again!).

[jtsterays]

Would love a MS-20 from you,the Arturia's is too dark sounding for me.

[andy-cytomic]

Would love a MS-20 from you,the Arturia's is too dark sounding for me.

Yeah, I agree, their osc are a bit dull. Would be great if they added an osc mode to make them snappier as an option. Their filters are good, definitely on a par with those I did for The Drop around 10 years ago, but taking around x2-x4 the cpu!