Cytomic Synthesizer

[jtsterays]

Its just fascinating to me that the most accurate filter emulation plugin still to this day came out a decade ago, are these big companies just bad at coding, lazy or you just ahead of the curve with the tech?

[sqigls]

almost 11 years now.

[audiouser720]

Its just fascinating to me that the most accurate filter emulation plugin still to this day came out a decade ago, are these big companies just bad at coding, lazy or you just ahead of the curve with the tech?

I think most companies, especially the big dogs, are profit oriented. It’s not worth for them to put too much time and effort into products when good marketing will do its justice anyway.

I imagine, that just like in any healthy business, profit is a priority for Cytomic as well. However, you can definitely see that the focus is on absolute quality and all the products were cooked with passion. The developer is taking his time and thrives for perfection, I think. That may explain why ‘The Drop’ for example is superior to any other filter plugin you can get your hands on.

[EvilDragon]

are these big companies just bad at coding, lazy or you just ahead of the curve with the tech?

None of this. Other companies figured out how to code up great sounding filters too.

[andy-cytomic]

Its just fascinating to me that the most accurate filter emulation plugin still to this day came out a decade ago, are these big companies just bad at coding, lazy or you just ahead of the curve with the tech?

I put in the hard yards automating and optimising the circuit solving required to pull off these complicated models. I think other companies are doing a lot better now, but yes, I was a decade ahead of the curve on most of this, and they are catching up now which is great, but I still come out on top in terms of cpu, especially say the MS20mk1 model in the Arturia stuff, and I've since raised the bar again in terms of detail, for example in the CF100 model here:

[SebAV]

Unfortunately sales income generated from VCV Rack is very small, so small it's pretty much not worth it to spend time on since I actually lose money when compared to spending time developing my own plugins or licensing tech to Ableton etc. I do like the platform, but it's a chicken and the egg situation

I’m sure you have already study it, but could Reason RE be a viable option ? It seems the « high quality » brands are standing the test of time.

[andy-cytomic]

Unfortunately sales income generated from VCV Rack is very small, so small it's pretty much not worth it to spend time on since I actually lose money when compared to spending time developing my own plugins or licensing tech to Ableton etc. I do like the platform, but it's a chicken and the egg situation

I’m sure you have already study it, but could Reason RE be a viable option ? It seems the « high quality » brands are standing the test of time.

In my experience, adding a few modulation sources or oscillators etc and releasing a plugin earns around x10 - x100 the income of things like VCV Rack modules or RE modules, and the plugin may take x5 the work if that. It's really hard to argue against that sort of difference.

[gentleclockdivider]

Unfortunately sales income generated from VCV Rack is very small, so small it's pretty much not worth it to spend time on since I actually lose money when compared to spending time developing my own plugins or licensing tech to Ableton etc. I do like the platform, but it's a chicken and the egg situation

I’m sure you have already study it, but could Reason RE be a viable option ? It seems the « high quality » brands are standing the test of time.

Also , reason cv control is a meager 1/64th of the actual sample rate .
Running reason at 44Khz , the cv control is just 689 Hz which is way too low for high res audio rate modulation .
Unless they updated this and cv control is now part of front panel patching updated per sample tick ( but I doubt it )

[ehdyn]

I think though that with VCV you will see a long tail of purchases though.. most people are probably not even aware of the release because it's in a forum that's not quick to get to.

Over time as demonstrations and shared patches utilize the filter you will see an uptick in purchases.

Also, probably relatively easy to port the filter to Voltage Modular and possibly Softube.

[Funkybot's Evil Twin]

Softube Modular looks like a closed system where they do development and that's that.

[vurt]

I think though that with VCV you will see a long tail of purchases though.. most people are probably not even aware of the release because it's in a forum that's not quick to get to.

modular is a step a lot of people don't wish to take. sadly it will never be close to selling the numbers individual synths do.

i say that as a modular fanatic.

[pdxindy]

I think though that with VCV you will see a long tail of purchases though.. most people are probably not even aware of the release because it's in a forum that's not quick to get to.

modular is a step a lot of people don't wish to take. sadly it will never be close to selling the numbers individual synths do.

i say that as a modular fanatic.

Plus for those who are seriously into modular, hardware modular is catching a lot of that attention. VCV obviously has some advantages, but I find patching software modular rather tedious. There's something special about patching real modular hardware. And the sound quality of hardware modular has some special sauce.

[zerocrossing]

I think though that with VCV you will see a long tail of purchases though.. most people are probably not even aware of the release because it's in a forum that's not quick to get to.

modular is a step a lot of people don't wish to take. sadly it will never be close to selling the numbers individual synths do.

i say that as a modular fanatic.

Plus for those who are seriously into modular, hardware modular is catching a lot of that attention. VCV obviously has some advantages, but I find patching software modular rather tedious. There's something special about patching real modular hardware. And the sound quality of hardware modular has some special sauce.

Not everyone has the mind to deal with patch chords, and even I admit that virtual patch chords can sometimes be daunting. Most of my software modular patches are actually pretty simple, but unique. I’d rather have MPE direct control over a few cool modules than build some giant generative ambient monster.

I know that I bought it up, but it would probably be a huge mistake to do a multi-engine, semi-modular super synth when the specter of Zebra 3 is on the horizon, and Pigments exists. I think some interesting oscillators tacked onto The Drop could be fun and interesting, and sell for a price that would make it a no brainer for most people. It doesn’t have to do everything, but do a few interesting things and do it super well.

[Phil B]

I’ve been using VCV pretty extensively, with a hardware modular and an ES-9/5/8CV combo. I use VCV mostly for generating sequencing and modulators across the 24 outputs, not really for audio generation or processing, which I continue to rely on hardware for. I found the ES5 to be mind numbing to use from within a DAW … except from within the VCV plug in, where it is simple, mostly because you can use the ES modules and route in and out from the interfaces directly. Mapping TouchOSC and other controllers is also really easy in VCV to control the sequencing and modulators.

I only bring that up here as an example of someone who uses VCV extensively, and with a hardware modular too, but is not really buying sound generating/processing VCV premium add ons. So I guess I can see Andy’s point about the challenge, at least from my perspective

[Funky40]

just as a sidenote:
i patched a few days back a 303 patch in my host of choice.
ABL3 vs. Acid-V on a crossfader. Everything CC mapped to HW controls.
Both 303s sharing the same Faders for same parameters. ( with adjusted curvatures where necessary, ABL3 vs. AcidV)

THEN i added VCV, just loading the CF-100 VCF from Andy (nothing else), behind my 303 patch.
I mapped the CF-100 to own HW controls, but with much optimised curvatures, which makes quite a bit of a difference with the CF-100 vs. manual jamming. (thats true for many many plugins)

i added a dry-wet control, OG303 sound, vs. the VCV/CF-100 line.
so its a turn of a HW knob to A-B the "CF-100 VCF altered" vs. Original 303 sound.


Ohh boy, how much better does the CF-100 path sound !!
It´s significant !

The whole patch consists also of some additional (quasi plugin outboard) saturation-Overdrive, behind the rest of the patch. With that on top of Andys Filter, is the diffference between original ABL3 and my altered Sound........well, its now so good, nobody would ever ask for Hardware again.
I´d not want to call it "Night & Day". But for me, it kinda is.

The CF-100 playing so so so good in that patch !
I mean, we have allready plenty of saturation/Overdrives in plugin form. That was not the hard part of the patch But plays also a nice role vs. the whole outcome. Especially vs. the full swing of the available jammability !

Maybe it would be a good idea to make a small easy synth, like a 101 or so ? Start it small ?
With a Synth that has.....oh well, Acid in it...from "Woody to Acid" with one Synth.
Ohh boy, there is something to be had ! for sure