PCspecialist Echo Supreme build: suggestions?

[cptgone]

Time for a new PC, so here I am looking for advice.

My old one is a Dell, and gave me huge problems (it failed LatencyMon's DPC tests, my DAW often stops recording altogether).
Also, I'm fed up with Dell's shenanigans (bad configurations, way too high temperature, dated case design...)

I was gonna get one from Scan, but... Brexit (I live in Belgium).

So I'm looking at PCspecialist (who set up a factory in the Netherlands, so presumably I won't be hit with import tax etc.)

They offer 3 configurations for DAWs, and I don't feel like spending hours and hours looking for a custom configuration myself, and potentially run into problems (I'm open to informed suggestions, though).

I'm strongly considering the mid tier one: Echo Supreme
Intel® Core™ i5-12400
Intel® Core™ i7 16 Core i7-13700F (maximaal 5,2 GHz) 30 MB cache
Windows 11 Home
ASUS® PRIME B760-PLUS D4
16 GB Corsair VENGEANCE 3200 MHz (2 x 8 GB)
32 GB Corsair VENGEANCE DDR4 3200 MHz (2 x 16 GB)
12 GB GEFORCE RTX 3060
CORSAIR 550W CV series (I'd consider upgrading to 650W, to kinda future proof)
DeepCool AK620 Zero Dark 250W TDP cooler
1 TB SOLIDIGM P41+ GEN 4 M.2 (I'd upgrade to 2 TB Solidigm P41+ Gen 4 M.2 NVMe max 4125 MB/sR, 3325 MB/sW)

- I'd add a single storage device:
4 TB Samsung 870 QVO 6 Gb/s (max 560 MB/sR, 530 MB/sW)
- I'd upgrade the case to a Fractal Define 7 (my Dell is as loud as a vacuum cleaner, this case is supposedly silent, hast dust covers, and 2 x USB 3.0, 2 x USB 2.0)
- I'd add a PCI-E card with 2 Type A USB 3.1 (as the Fractal Define 7 only offers 2 x USB 3.0, 2 x USB 2.0)
I'd much prefer even more USB inputs, but that doesn't seem to be on the table in PCspecialist's configuration options. I do have an external USB hub, but some devices require a direct connection.
- I'd add a DVD/bluRay.

- I suppose I wouldn't need extra fans (would I?)
- I suppose I wouldn't need a 2nd M.2 SSD (would I?)
- Not sure if I would do well to pay an extra €11 for Arctic thermal paste instead of the regular, unspecified kind).

Total price would be €1822 €2090.

My needs:
- run Cubase and Bitwig
- I don't expect to use more than 20 audio tracks, typically (so I guess i5 CPU would do)
Max. channels i would ever simultaniously record audio on: 16 (when using my hardware synths, which I may get back into now that my beloved lap cat has passed)
- mostly use VST's and VSTi's
- typically add some guitar, some bass very occasionally, and perhaps even some vocals
- play games at decent settings (typically, not very demanding ones as to the graphics card - mainly Eve Online, and most single player genres except action/FPS)

I'd prefer AMD, for lower CPU temperature and more bang for the buck - but both Scan's and PCspecialist's suggested DAW PC builds run on intel (and I don't wanna risk running into problems, by using new and relatively untested tech).

[T-CM11]

- I'd upgrade the case to a Fractal Define 7 (my Dell is as loud as a vacuum cleaner, this case is supposedly silent, hast dust covers, and 2 x USB 3.0, 2 x USB 2.0)
- I'd add a PCI-E card with 2 Type A USB 3.1 (as the Fractal Define 7 only offers 2 x USB 3.0, 2 x USB 2.0)
I'd much prefer even more USB inputs, but that doesn't seem to be on the table in PCspecialist's configuration options. I do have an external USB hub, but some devices require a direct connection.

The Define 7 is a great, quiet case! (I have a Define 5 myself)

You'll have more USB ports - they're at the back, on the mainboard.
https://www.asus.com/us/motherboards-co ... /techspec/
Rear USB (Total 6 ports)
1 x USB 3.2 Gen 2x2 port (1 x USB Type-C®)
2 x USB 3.2 Gen 2 ports (2 x Type-A)
1 x USB 3.2 Gen 1 port (1 x Type-A)
2 x USB 2.0 ports (2 x Type-A)
Front USB (Total 7 ports)
1 x USB 3.2 Gen 1 connector (supports USB Type-C®)
1 x USB 3.2 Gen 1 header supports 2 additional USB 3.2 Gen 1 ports
2 x USB 2.0 headers support 4 additional USB 2.0 ports
So... 10 in total.

I heard that Scan tests their configurations for DAW usage, and provide good after sales support (for that purpose). I looked on the PCspecialist website, but I don't read anywhere why the PCs that they sell are "Digital Audio Workstations".
These guys look more specialised: https://i4studio.nl/

[T-CM11]

- I don't expect to use more than 20 audio tracks, typically (so I guess i5 CPU would do)
Max. channels i would ever simultaniously record audio on: 16 (when using my hardware synths, which I may get back into now that my beloved lap cat has passed)

CPU power is mostly irrelevant for audio tracks. It's VST effects, but mostly recent(ish) VST instruments that need the CPU power (some more than others).
Me, I wouldn't go for less than an 8-core (Intel 1x700).

edit: Do you have a decent audio interface already?

[T-CM11]

Also: you'll want at least 32GB ram. (for large sample libraries, if you use them - but also for games, if you want to play more recent ones)

[cptgone]

I heard that Scan tests their configurations for DAW usage, and provide good after sales support (for that purpose).

Indeed - but the extra costs for continental customers is quite prohibitive.
(Up till recently, Scan even stopped selling to the EU altogether. Even now, only selected EU countries are served, they don't even list which)

Years ago, Scan's site said their competitors (I presumed, PCspecialist) were known to copy Scan's configurations - without doing the extensive DPC latency testing Scan claims to do.

I looked on the PCspecialist website, but I don't read anywhere why the PCs that they sell are "Digital Audio Workstations".

The Belgian one does (IIRC, so did the Dutch one, when I last checked back in 2022).
https://www.pcspecialist.be/pro-audio-computers/

These guys look more specialised: https://i4studio.nl/

Indeed, I once bought one from them.
I'll have a look.

UPDATE: they've greatly expanded their range since last time I checked, sadly with graphic cards that aren't up to my needs, and they show much less info on the parts used.
I guess I could ask to fit a graphic card more suitable to gaming though, and larger SSDs (as in one of their PC's description they say "just ask"). But I prefer the extended configuration options and parts info PCspecialist's site offers.
Still, if anyone's interested, I suspect the i4studio guys really know their business, perhaps more so than PCspecialist (who sell all kinds of PCs, not just DAW)

Also: you'll want at least 32GB ram. (for large sample libraries, if you use them - but also for games, if you want to play more recent ones)

Not a big sample library user (My C: partition has been stuffed to the brim for years already).

As to 32 GB for games, when I did some research last year there seemed to be a consensus that 16 GB is enough. I'll give the matter another look, thanks.

Do you have a decent audio interface already?

Yes, a 2nd gen Scarlett 18i8 (extended by a Behringer Ultragain)

You'll have more USB ports - they're at the back, on the mainboard.

That's great, thanks!
Last year I did a lot of research, so I vaguely seemed to remember that, but didn't see any USB inputs on the back of the case (sily me, should have realised they would be in the expansion slots)

[Pictus]

For DDR4 vs DDR5 look here.
IF you decide to stay with DDR4, at least get a faster 3600MHz RAM.

If you are not using hard disks, much better a case with good airflow.

This is one of the best

This is a more economic case


For the BOOT drive, a drive that is always writing, I HIGHLY recommend a
SSD TLC model and NOT QLC model!
The Solidigm P41 is a QLC model
https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/so ... ssd-review
For the BOOT drive, Silicon Power XS70 is good/fast/reliable and not expensive.
https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/si ... s70-review
https://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/s ... ew,17.html

To prevent the CPU to bent at some point in time


The AK620 cooler fans may create resonance
Lots of complains https://www.google.com/search?q=DeepCoo ... +ressonace

Better the Thermalright Phantom Spirit. The Thermalright Assassin may also
create resonance, but the Phantom Spirit seems to be resonance free.


For PSU look at
https://hwbusters.com/best_picks/best-a ... e-busters/
https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/be ... ,4229.html

IF you want a better thermal "paste" with *longer* lifespan.
Place it in the freezer as the cold make it easier to peel off the plastic protection.
https://www.moddiy.com/products/Honeywe ... M-Pad.html

BTW, there is no problem with the AMD CPUs and for stuff that uses AVX-512
like Acustica Audio, AMD 7000 CPUs are faster.
Some good tweaks at viewtopic.php?p=8667750#p8667750

Good luck!

[BJ]

I bought an audio PC from pcspecialists 5 years ago and it’s still going strong without any problems.

[michat]

You maybe should have a look across the border at the builds from Jörg at https://www.musikcomputer.de/wp/pepperbox/.
He tests all components against each other to assure they run together perfectly.
Also, if you provide all your logins, he installs all your software so thst if the computer arrives you're basically read to go. I got my first one in 2002 and sticked to his builds since then.
After he has finished your computer he runs audio specific tests for 24 hours until everything runs smoothly.
And his tech support is great and he even supports you years after you bought the computer.
It may be worth a look

[BJ]

I just took a look at pcspecialist and put together a build just to test. Personally I would go with 2 ssd’s one for windows & software/plugins and one for samples. I added a bluray drive but there’s only one case that supports a disc drive and it’s hideous?

[cptgone]

I just took a look at pcspecialist and put together a build just to test. Personally I would go with 2 ssd’s one for windows & software/plugins and one for samples. I added a bluray drive but there’s only one case that supports a disc drive and it’s hideous?

- I'm not a big sample user, but I figured I'd get a fast SSD (windows, VSTs, some samples) and a slow one for data and games (Pictus suggests SSDs run hotter than HDs though, so perhaps I should reconsider).
- Cases that excel in airflow/temperature don't leave space for DVD/BluRay drives, these days. That space has been taken by fans. Current CPUs running as hot as they do, I really want to keep things cool.
I'm considering using an external DVD/Bluray instead (would be a pain though, I don't have a good spot for such a device - but I have a collection of DVDs. It's a shame there's no cinephile streaming service AFAIK)

[T-CM11]

- I'm not a big sample user, but I figured I'd get a fast SSD (windows, VSTs, some samples) and a slow one for data and games (Pictus suggests SSDs run hotter than HDs though, so perhaps I should reconsider).
- Cases that excel in airflow/temperature don't leave space for DVD/BluRay drives, these days. That space has been taken by fans. Current CPUs running as hot as they do, I really want to keep things cool.
I'm considering using an external DVD/Bluray instead (would be a pain though, I don't have a good spot for such a device - but I have a collection of DVDs. It's a shame there's no cinephile streaming service AFAIK)

- More recent games definitely prefer to be installed on SSD. A large HDD is great for archiving data (like GOG installers, etc...) or older games.
- Your initial idea was a good one; the Define 7 is both a cool and quiet case
- I recommend against playing movies in a Bluray drive - software is a pain. Get a standalone player.

[cptgone]

IF you decide to stay with DDR4, at least get a faster 3600MHz RAM.

No DR5 on offer (at least not while editing the suggested configuration I started from), so I'll go for 3600MHz.
Thanks!

If you are not using hard disks, much better a case with good airflow.

should have remembered to check Gamer Nexus' tests.
From what I can pick at PCspecialist, I'm goona go for the cheap Lian Li Lancool 215.

For the BOOT drive, a drive that is always writing, I HIGHLY recommend a
SSD TLC model and NOT QLC model!

Wow, that's good to know. Upgraded to Solidigm P44 PRO GEN 4. Thanks!

To prevent the CPU to bent at some point in time

Ah yes, I remember that video - not on offer by PCspecialist though.
Good point, thanks.

The AK620 cooler fans may create resonance

PCspecialist doesn't carry the better fans you mention, I'll take my chances as the AK620 seems to be a justifiable choice, and the best at hand at PCspecialist.

For PSU look at
https://hwbusters.com/best_picks/best-a ... e-busters/
https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/be ... ,4229.html

I'll have to go with what PCspecialist is offering, according to them 550W wil more than suffice.

I bought an audio PC from pcspecialists 5 years ago and it’s still going strong without any problems.

That's reassuring, thanks.

You maybe should have a look across the border at the builds from Jörg at https://www.musikcomputer.de/wp/pepperbox/.
He tests all components against each other to assure they run together perfectly.

Thanks, good to know.
As with i4studio, no gaming ready graphics cards though - I'm sure i could ask for one, but prefer the easy DIY configuration PCspecialist offers.

[cptgone]

- Your initial idea was a good one; the Define 7 is both a cool and quiet case
- I recommend against playing movies in a Bluray drive - software is a pain. Get a standalone player.

- I decided to go for best thermals (over noise reduction). The Define 7 isn't in Gamer Nexus' tests, but judging by how Fractal's Pop Air and Meshify fare, a closed case won't be a top performer in that department.
The Lian Li Lancool 215 is way cheaper at PCspecialist than other cases with great noise normalized thermal performance, it seems like the obvious choice to me (even though the build quality prolly won't compare to Define or Torrent).
- good point about the standalone DVD/Bluray, I hadn't considered that.
I even have an old standalone DVD player the previous owners of my house left behind.
Problem solved, thanks

[cptgone]

Thank you very much, all, I'm so glad I asked before ordering.
You guys really helped me out.

Unless someone has more suggestions, I'll be ordering this tomorrow:

Case
LIAN LI LANCOOL 215 BEHUIZING VOOR GAMING
CPU
Intel® Core™ i7 16 Core i7-13700F (max 5,2 GHz) 30 MB cache
Motherboard
ASUS® PRIME B760-PLUS D4 (LGA1700, PCIe5.0, USB 3.2)
RAM
32 GB Corsair VENGEANCE RGB DDR4 PRO 3600 MHz (2 x 16 GB)
Graphics
12 GB NVIDIA GEFORCE RTX 3060 - HDMI, DP, LHR
SSD
2 TB SOLIDIGM P44 PRO GEN 4 M.2 NVMe PCIe SSD (maximaal 7000 MB/sR, 6500 MB/sW)
Storage SSD
4 TB Samsung 870 QVO 2.5" SSD, SATA 6 Gb/s (maximaal 560 MB/sR, 530 MB/sW)
PSU
CORSAIR 550 W CV SERIES™ CV-VOEDING 550 W
Cooler
DeepCool AK620 ZERO DARK

[BJ]

That looks good