Cytomic Synthesizer

[s28]

Will new things be getting licensed to Ableton Andy?

Would love some more of your tech in there, it's been a while.

The eq in hybrid reverb is nice - would love the different filter slopes in eq8 coded by you.

[pdxindy]

Not everyone has the mind to deal with patch chords, and even I admit that virtual patch chords can sometimes be daunting. Most of my software modular patches are actually pretty simple, but unique. I’d rather have MPE direct control over a few cool modules than build some giant generative ambient monster.

Besides the lack of saving presets, patching in hardware with physical cords I find more enjoyable than in software. And of course in hardware, it's the only option.

The only modular software I use these days is Bitwig's Grid cause is like literally 10 times easier than the software modulars that emulate the appearance and workflow of hardware. Grid parameters can be modulated directly, which means modules are simple cause they don't need "cv" inputs for everything and in general I only need a small percentage of cables compared to the standard hardware emulations for the similar patch. And if I want higher sound quality than the Grid, I use my hardware modular.

Anyway, my point was, I can understand why Cytomic isn't selling a lot of VCV modules. I'm someone who is into modular, and still unlikely to buy them.

---

Oh, and I agree with you. I would prefer Cytomic's synth (whenever released), not be some do everything supersynth. I would for sure buy a simpler synth from Cytomic. Something 1 page, or mostly, that still has a fairly wide sonic range in the Osc's and with superb sound quality with Osc and Filter FM, and Ringmod.

[vurt]

I think though that with VCV you will see a long tail of purchases though.. most people are probably not even aware of the release because it's in a forum that's not quick to get to.

modular is a step a lot of people don't wish to take. sadly it will never be close to selling the numbers individual synths do.

i say that as a modular fanatic.

Plus for those who are seriously into modular, hardware modular is catching a lot of that attention. VCV obviously has some advantages, but I find patching software modular rather tedious. There's something special about patching real modular hardware. And the sound quality of hardware modular has some special sauce.

Not everyone has the mind to deal with patch chords, and even I admit that virtual patch chords can sometimes be daunting. Most of my software modular patches are actually pretty simple, but unique. I’d rather have MPE direct control over a few cool modules than build some giant generative ambient monster.

I know that I bought it up, but it would probably be a huge mistake to do a multi-engine, semi-modular super synth when the specter of Zebra 3 is on the horizon, and Pigments exists. I think some interesting oscillators tacked onto The Drop could be fun and interesting, and sell for a price that would make it a no brainer for most people. It doesn’t have to do everything, but do a few interesting things and do it super well.

i wasnt pushing for andy to do anything
was just explaining why vcv modules arent as popular as a synth would be.

even with patch saving, software modular is quite niche, most people who use reaktor probably use ensembles, rather than patch up from scratch. which is understandable, we all enjoy different parts of this business.
i enjoy nothing more than losing several hours in a patch, recording nothing, and unpatching
but i can totally understand why someone else wouldnt.

[gentleclockdivider]

just as a sidenote:
i patched a few days back a 303 patch in my host of choice.
ABL3 vs. Acid-V on a crossfader. Everything CC mapped to HW controls.
Both 303s sharing the same Faders for same parameters. ( with adjusted curvatures where necessary, ABL3 vs. AcidV)

THEN i added VCV, just loading the CF-100 VCF from Andy (nothing else), behind my 303 patch.
I mapped the CF-100 to own HW controls, but with much optimised curvatures, which makes quite a bit of a difference with the CF-100 vs. manual jamming. (thats true for many many plugins)

i added a dry-wet control, OG303 sound, vs. the VCV/CF-100 line.
so its a turn of a HW knob to A-B the "CF-100 VCF altered" vs. Original 303 sound.


Ohh boy, how much better does the CF-100 path sound !!
It´s significant !

The whole patch consists also of some additional (quasi plugin outboard) saturation-Overdrive, behind the rest of the patch. With that on top of Andys Filter, is the diffference between original ABL3 and my altered Sound........well, its now so good, nobody would ever ask for Hardware again.
I´d not want to call it "Night & Day". But for me, it kinda is.

The CF-100 playing so so so good in that patch !
I mean, we have allready plenty of saturation/Overdrives in plugin form. That was not the hard part of the patch But plays also a nice role vs. the whole outcome. Especially vs. the full swing of the available jammability !

Maybe it would be a good idea to make a small easy synth, like a 101 or so ? Start it small ?
With a Synth that has.....oh well, Acid in it...from "Woody to Acid" with one Synth.
Ohh boy, there is something to be had ! for sure

Abl3 + the drop is pure bliss
Here I used ABL3 ( full cutoff -no reso) and only env. amount and accent is used to drive the drop's env.follower , drop set to wasp filter .
https://gearspace.com/board/attachments ... g-drop.mp3

[zerocrossing]

Not everyone has the mind to deal with patch chords, and even I admit that virtual patch chords can sometimes be daunting. Most of my software modular patches are actually pretty simple, but unique. I’d rather have MPE direct control over a few cool modules than build some giant generative ambient monster.

Besides the lack of saving presets, patching in hardware with physical cords I find more enjoyable than in software. And of course in hardware, it's the only option.

The only modular software I use these days is Bitwig's Grid cause is like literally 10 times easier than the software modulars that emulate the appearance and workflow of hardware. Grid parameters can be modulated directly, which means modules are simple cause they don't need "cv" inputs for everything and in general I only need a small percentage of cables compared to the standard hardware emulations for the similar patch. And if I want higher sound quality than the Grid, I use my hardware modular.

Anyway, my point was, I can understand why Cytomic isn't selling a lot of VCV modules. I'm someone who is into modular, and still unlikely to buy them.

---

Oh, and I agree with you. I would prefer Cytomic's synth (whenever released), not be some do everything supersynth. I would for sure buy a simpler synth from Cytomic. Something 1 page, or mostly, that still has a fairly wide sonic range in the Osc's and with superb sound quality with Osc and Filter FM, and Ringmod.

I like The Grid too, but I wish they’d do some higher oversampling so audio rate modulation would sound better. I hate Softube Modular’s workflow, but man it sounds great.

[pdxindy]

I like The Grid too, but I wish they’d do some higher oversampling so audio rate modulation would sound better. I hate Softube Modular’s workflow, but man it sounds great.

I just don't have the patience for the software modulars that copy the hardware workflow. It crosses a threshold where I find it tedious and then over time I stop using it.

So I just accept the limitations the Grid has and work within them. For higher quality audio rate modulation, I use Bazille.

If a Cytomic synth eventually shows up, and assuming it has some good audio rate modulation options, it will be an insta-buy for me. No matter how good his VCV modules are, I'm not gonna buy them cause I know VCV just doesn't do it for me.

[zerocrossing]

I like The Grid too, but I wish they’d do some higher oversampling so audio rate modulation would sound better. I hate Softube Modular’s workflow, but man it sounds great.

I just don't have the patience for the software modulars that copy the hardware workflow. It crosses a threshold where I find it tedious and then over time I stop using it.

So I just accept the limitations the Grid has and work within them. For higher quality audio rate modulation, I use Bazille.

If a Cytomic synth eventually shows up, and assuming it has some good audio rate modulation options, it will be an insta-buy for me. No matter how good his VCV modules are, I'm not gonna buy them cause I know VCV just doesn't do it for me.

I don’t know if this would work for you, but what I like to do with the software modules, which I agree are a PITA, are treat it more like a custom instrument builder. So, once I build a patch, I start making presets off that patch like it’s a regular plugin like Diva. Not complex stuff, just interesting combos. I’ll take some complex oscillator and just put an MSEG for reach parameter and just see what I get. I just made one with the new Cytomic filter in VCV Rack Pro and I already have an init and 2 presets from it.

[andy-cytomic]

Will new things be getting licensed to Ableton Andy?

Would love some more of your tech in there, it's been a while.

The eq in hybrid reverb is nice - would love the different filter slopes in eq8 coded by you.

There is nothing new planned at this time, but Ableton are interested talking about new things to license.

[andy-cytomic]

Thanks for all the feedback and useful discussion everyone, much appreciated! And yes a more basic cutdown synth will most likely come first before anything too complicated.

[Funky40]

Abl3 + the drop is pure bliss
Here I used ABL3 ( full cutoff -no reso) and only env. amount and accent is used to drive the drop's env.follower , drop set to wasp filter .
https://gearspace.com/board/attachments ... g-drop.mp3

funny music, I like it
note to myself:
Keyword: envelope follower / envelope follower / envelope follower

how can you send the envAmount and accent out of ABL to the drop ?
sorry for OT, hope its ok ?

[gentleclockdivider]

how can you send the envAmount and accent out of ABL to the drop ?
sorry for OT, hope its ok ?

You don't really send the env.amount-accent out of abl .
Env. amount and accent are used to create louder steps and thus differences in volume .
The drop's env.follower will react to the higher incoming peaks , the env. followe averages the incoming signal .(first screenshot ).
You can also use env set to trig , the drop will then create an internal envelope but it sometimes misses a step (screenshot 2 )
BOth have their uses
Here , I use arturia ms 20 filter , also sounds pretty damn good
https://gearspace.com/board/attachments ... filter.wav

[Funky40]

Env. amount and accent are used to create louder steps and thus differences in volume .

Here , I use arturia ms 20 filter , also sounds pretty damn good

Thanks ! I see.

The Arturia ms20 is iirc also a work from Andy-cytomic.
I saw him mention this in a thread somewhere. Might have been here.......
Brings up the question: which other filters are also ?

[Funkybot's Evil Twin]

Env. amount and accent are used to create louder steps and thus differences in volume .

Here , I use arturia ms 20 filter , also sounds pretty damn good

Thanks ! I see.

The Arturia ms20 is iirc also a work from Andy-cytomic.
I saw him mention this in a thread somewhere. Might have been here.......
Brings up the question: which other filters are also ?

He did NOT work on the Arturia MS-20. He said something to the effect of (paraphrasing here), 'the Arturia MS-20 filter is roughly the same quality of the MK1 filter I did for The Drop but uses 2x-4x the CPU of The Drop'.

There was a whole big discussion about filters he did recently in one of these threads. Short answer: lots of products have older or medium detail filters he coded (everything from Live to Strobe+Cypher, to even Serum with some older ones), but there are no synths with the high detail Cytomic filters outside of the VCV Rack modules he made. And of course, The Drop (which isn't a synth).

[Funky40]

The Arturia ms20 is iirc also a work from Andy-cytomic.

He did NOT work on the Arturia MS-20.

ahh, i see.
Thanks for clarification !

[JoeCat]

Cytomic filters are the secret sauce in Ableton Operator, still a killer synth for reasons*. If Ableton would just update it with a few more features (like a second LFO, filter bypass for individual oscillators, etc.), it would be even more of a beast.

*some reasons IMHO: fixed, adjustable phases for each oscillator (great for percussion and kicks), a single time parameter for all envelopes that can be modulated by keytrack (great for acoustic instrument emulation), multiple drive and filter saturation options, simple intuitive ui, etc.