How do Pedals / Amp sims work together? Do I need external pedals if I'm just recording at home with ToneX?

[kanoharuayu]

Hey, this is probably stupid question but I'm a beginner and trying to figure out the signal flow of things and if I should invest in IRL pedals like a "Boost" or "Overdrive" or even a Harmonizer/Reverb... or just stick with software pedals like those in Amplitube, I heard Bias has a plugin called Bias Pedal too... But I'm more interested in ToneX right now.

I want to start guitar again mainly to play for my own songs.
So, I'm planning on either buying ToneX software and using my interface's Instrument input, or buying ToneX pedal.
(Which option would be better?)

ToneX has captures of pedals/amps. So, instead of buying like a TS808, or a booster pedal, could you load a TS808/Booster pedal from ToneX then load the amp and get the same effect?

or would an external Boost pedal be really beneficial to the DI signal for the ampsim?

like, I'm trying to figure out what other people are doing to get nice guitar tones / nice sounding tracks in daws. Is all I need is ToneX? Or would like everyone benefit from a nice boost / Overdrive / distortion pedal for DI guitar tracks into ampsims?

Also, about FX pedals like harmonizers/chorus/reverbs, are daw plugins just as good? I guess to use a FX pedal I'd have to DI into interface > go through ampsim > back out from interface into FX pedal > back into interface

I'm completely starting again from scratch so I'm planning to head to guitar center and pick out a guitar today.

[lfm]

The big dividing line would be hardware where you can just power up a unit and sit and play with phones or always need to start computer and fire up some software for that purpose?

I just went hardware for amps and keyboards 10 years ago since I appreciate just playing and just one power button and off you go.

For phones only I would look at
- Line6 Helix as well as ToneX

If wanting amp and sound in room maybe Fender Mustang series modelling amps. Similar approach as ToneX to load amp and stomp box and effects over to hardware from computer software.
- I have one Fender Superchamp X2 with tube power stage
- same approach but software was called Fuse
- you load 16 setup combinations of amp, speaker and stomp boxes on each
- load to amp and it's there for every day use just powering amp up

I bought some really cheap of these pedals I linked to in this thread
viewtopic.php?t=599520

If it's just tone from guitar they respond pretty well to volume knob on guitar and how you play, but use as preshaping tone for tube amps in my case.

In California model demo he just plugged this pedal into audio interface and off he goes.
- then effects and stuff in computer then
- but investment is just €40 in this case(if on shelfs in stores today it was hard to find even online)

For guitar sound it's sooooo much experimenting anyway.

These computer amp sims with hundreds of presets
- can make you never make your mind up
- should I use this or that preset

If they respond to your playing like you want it to, only you can tell.
- I just find real tube amps are unbeatable
- but it takes a while to know the amp

But for a cover band I fully understand the versatility of ToneX or some modelling stuff.

[Uncle E]

Definitely not a boost or overdrive. Those are for tube amps. In TONEX, you would simply turn up the input. Harmonizer and reverb would probably be better as plugins, although there are exceptions (Strymon reverbs, Eventide PitchFactory, etc.).

[GuyaGuy]

Using all software is fine. Practically speaking, there's not much difference between a digital effect in software vs hardware. The main advantages of a pedal is you can use it live as well as for recording and you can easily turn effects on/off while recording with the switches. But you lose the ability to easily choose the settings or effects after recording (unless of course you also record a dry signal, which is often very useful to have.) Some folks (like me!) like using analog pedals even if playing into an amp/cab simulator, but it's not really necessary.

As for DIs, you don't need one. You can just use your interface as your DI. But you can use one if you like. I like using Golden Age Project Preq-73, which is a preamp/DI, even going into an amp sim/cab.

[zerocrossing]

Using all software is fine, but that would depend on your audio interface. If it doesn’t have an instrument level (hi-z) input, then you will want something that goes between your guitar and your interface. A standard line level in isn’t right. Wrong impedance. My UAD Apollo has two special inputs for such things, but I actually still use a Blackstar HT-5 Dual tube distortion pedal. Honestly, I really don’t need it, but I’ve had it for a long time and I like the sound, but to be honest, the Tonex models and Amplitube captures are great.

[kanoharuayu]

Definitely not a boost or overdrive. Those are for tube amps. In TONEX, you would simply turn up the input. Harmonizer and reverb would probably be better as plugins, although there are exceptions (Strymon reverbs, Eventide PitchFactory, etc.).

I watched this guys video the other day (he modeled his own amps in tonex) but he's using a TSX Overdrive pedal infront of both tonex and the amp to test it out, and it seems like they react the same way, the red input is tonex I think, blue is amp. I wonder if turning up input would behave similar to an OD pedal?

and yeah strymon reverbs looked amazing, all these pedals are like 150$ to 300$ so it's definitely, while I'm looking at a 300 to 500$ starting guitar lol

[GuyaGuy]

Using all software is fine, but that would depend on your audio interface. If it doesn’t have an instrument level (hi-z) input, then you will want something that goes between your guitar and your interface. A standard line level in isn’t right. Wrong impedance.

Good point. All interfaces I’ve had have a Hi-z input but maybe not all do.

I watched this guys video the other day (he modeled his own amps in tonex) but he's using a TSX Overdrive pedal infront of both tonex and the amp to test it out, and it seems like they react the same way, the red input is tonex I think, blue is amp. I wonder if turning up input would behave similar to an OD pedal?

and yeah strymon reverbs looked amazing, all these pedals are like 150$ to 300$ so it's definitely, while I'm looking at a 300 to 500$ starting guitar lol

Yeah if it’s a decent amp sim, putting an analog overdrive into it should behave the same an amp would. Of course not all pedals sound good with all amps but that’s true whether the amp is a sim or real.

[vurt]

Definitely not a boost or overdrive. Those are not fuzz

[Uncle E]

Yeah if it’s a decent amp sim, putting an analog overdrive into it should behave the same an amp would. Of course not all pedals sound good with all amps but that’s true whether the amp is a sim or real.

TONEX is fantastic for this. When I make TONEX models, I make them at the highest gain setting that makes sense because turning down the input volume has the same effect as turning down the volume on the real amps.

[zerocrossing]

Using all software is fine, but that would depend on your audio interface. If it doesn’t have an instrument level (hi-z) input, then you will want something that goes between your guitar and your interface. A standard line level in isn’t right. Wrong impedance.

Good point. All interfaces I’ve had have a Hi-z input but maybe not all do.

Yeah, my first one, a MOTU 828, did not, and I had to run it though a pedal with line level out to get it to sound right.

I watched this guys video the other day (he modeled his own amps in tonex) but he's using a TSX Overdrive pedal infront of both tonex and the amp to test it out, and it seems like they react the same way, the red input is tonex I think, blue is amp. I wonder if turning up input would behave similar to an OD pedal?

and yeah strymon reverbs looked amazing, all these pedals are like 150$ to 300$ so it's definitely, while I'm looking at a 300 to 500$ starting guitar lol

Yeah if it’s a decent amp sim, putting an analog overdrive into it should behave the same an amp would. Of course not all pedals sound good with all amps but that’s true whether the amp is a sim or real.

I’ll tell you, it wasn’t too expensive, but the Blackstar DT tube pedals sound great, and they sound great in front of Tonex or Amplitube models.

[glokraw]

For starting out, a self-contained fairly instantaneous unit like the Boss ME 90 would be cool.
Designed to avoid menu diving, it's reviews are convincing. I suspect many competing alternatives will require more futzing about, to deliver equal results. We are flooded with great gear, only need to be flooded with time and money to have it AAAALLLLLLLLL

[Uncle E]

ME-90 has the same quality effects as the GT-1000, which is pretty impressive. A lot of people are using TONEX together with the GT-1000 Core.

[wpostma]

There's no way I'm getting rid of my real pedals or my floor digital modellers to work purely with a laptop and a midi footswitch. Even for at home I just don't enjoy vsts.

Why? Because these complex software rigs are full of gremlins, and while there's no way I'd play in front of two or more people with it, even at home, just into my daw, it's not any fun. I end up trying to figure out how to kick my lead sound in, and whether to record the lead into a separate take or all in one take, and it's just not fun.

Also no modeller (floor model or in your computer) can give you the feeling of an amp moving a lot of air in your room. If you're gonna get big speakers may as well get a big Blackstar or Fender amp attached to it. When I write songs, at home, I want to shake the room.

But a Tonex pedal and an FRFR? Definitely would gig it once it's past firmware 1.0.5 or however many tries it takes them to get the glitches out.

I happen to love menu diving and I love my PodGo. If I was travelling with a band though the ME90 has a certain.... simplicity that I think looks perfect.

As for DI boxes, if you play at church or a bar or venue with a PA, a DI box is a must have to get your signal ready to go over balanced XLR, unless you have a modeller with a balanced XLR output. I use my DI at home because it somehow makes my guitar sound better going into that DI and into a mic pre than whatever my audio interface can do when I put it in High-Z mode.
I hope everyone elses audio interface's highZ mode sucks less than my Steinberg UR22's high z mode.

I keep trying to find plugins that I can even play at home that feel as good to play with interactively as real pedals do. but just like VSTs, versus hardware synths, there's something to be said about having physical stomp boxes in front of you. I almost always play through my pedal board into my DAW as none of the vsts I own make me happy. I own tonex (vst), amplitube, guitar rig 6, positive grid bias fx, and a dozen others.

Give me stompboxes or floor modeller pedals any day.

[Uncle E]

Does the ME-90 allow deeper editing beyond the knobs? The front panel editing for the reverb is weak, sadly.

[cptgone]

- Before getting pedals, I used VSTs for years (before Tonex though, I've no experience with that platform).
Some offer processing not (yet) available in pedals.
Those who try to replicate pedals don't always come close enough though (analog ones of course, especially fuzz).

- Pedals are fun.
They have very simple interfaces (usually just a few knobs) which has advantages and disadvantages, compared to software.

Some are truly inspiring, in an interactive way (e.g. Chase Bliss Blooper, Habit, Mood).
Many entice you to play in a different way (as many plugins do).

Being able to control a parameter using an expression pedal, as you play, is great (and pretty much essential in the case of wah pedals and volume pedals).

- Pedals interact with amps (and other pedals. IMHO overdrives and boosts can be useful, to colour your sound, or interact with other pedals downstream the chain).

Some pedals are designed to mimic amps (digitally, with transistors, or even tubes). But most people who depend on amps, seem to prefer those (especially for gain staging, as boosts and overdrives can drive amps into "break-up"). If you don't use an amp (they tend to sound best at high volume), such pedals can be useful though. Even if they leave to be desired for gain staging purposes, they will colour/compress sound.

If your audio interface has a pre-amp, pedals may in theory interact with it the way e.g. an overdrive pushes an amp. But such pre-amps aren't designed to sound better that way, the way guitar amp pre-amps are.

Gain staging is important, even if you just use pedals.
When using software only, you may be able to replicate that, if the input of a given VST can be overdriven with pleasing results.

- ITT lfm mentioned he doesn't like to fire up a DAW to play guitar.
Much as I enjoy the immediacy of pedals, I don't share that feeling. As I don't use an amp, my computer is an essential piece of the chain for me (I use headphones). I just start my DAW and then focus on guitar and pedals. While recording, I keep an eye on my audio interface if I'm afraid the signal is getting too loud.

I play/record my guitar using a splitter, so I have both the clean sound, and the treated one (in stereo).