KVR Audio

El°HYM · Post by **El°HYM** » Tue Aug 01, 2023 11:28 am

Surprisingly good that White Sea Video.

pouletdegrains · Post by **pouletdegrains** » Sat Sep 09, 2023 10:54 am

IME choosing a sample rate depends heavily on 1) converters (96kHz sounds much better on my MH Lio

, 2) expected latency level (i.e. tracking or mixing) and 3) the quality of the plugins in the project. Some won’t behave properly at low sample rates (aliasing and peak detection issues).

sQeetz · Post by **sQeetz** » Sat Sep 09, 2023 12:54 pm

If a plugin has aliasing issues @44.1kHz, then it's a poorly written plugin, isn't it?

jethrobull · Post by **jethrobull** » Sat Sep 09, 2023 12:56 pm

sQeetz wrote: Sat Sep 09, 2023 12:54 pm If a plugin has aliasing issues @44.1kHz, then it's a poorly written plugin, isn't it?

Yep!

sQeetz · Post by **sQeetz** » Sat Sep 09, 2023 1:46 pm

Why do I, as an end user, have to choose to run everything @96kHz just because some plugins sound shitty at the rate they should sound good in the first place?

pouletdegrains · Post by **pouletdegrains** » Sat Sep 09, 2023 2:57 pm

Agreed. I’ve uninstalled quite a few plugins on the past for this reason. However some great compressor plugins are very taxing CPU wise and/or induce quite a lot of latency: when tracking, using a less optimized but CPU-friendly plugin at 96kHz sometimes does the trick

sQeetz · Post by **sQeetz** » Sat Sep 09, 2023 4:30 pm

pouletdegrains wrote: Sat Sep 09, 2023 2:57 pm Agreed. I’ve uninstalled quite a few plugins on the past for this reason. However some great compressor plugins are very taxing CPU wise and/or induce quite a lot of latency: when tracking, using a less optimized but CPU-friendly plugin at 96kHz sometimes does the trick

Time to ditch this plugin, isn't it? When the workaround is to adjust your whole environment to the faulty plugin?

kritikon · Post by **kritikon** » Sat Sep 09, 2023 8:02 pm

TBH I don't use huge amounts of plugins, but I've never come across anything that doesn't work at 44.1. Are you being serious or just making this up? Name these plugins please. We should all know about plugins that can't work at 44.1. I get aliasing if they're using distortion/harmonics etc, but peak detection? There are dynamics plugins that can't compress or limit at 44.1, really...?

jamcat · Post by **jamcat** » Sat Sep 09, 2023 9:22 pm

billcarroll wrote: Thu Jul 27, 2023 5:28 pm More good info on oversampling and running at higher sample rates. Higher sample rates for the DAW session are discussed at around 31:30, but the entire discussion with a plugin developer is good.

That is exactly what I've been saying in all of these discussions about 44.1/48kHz vs. 96/192kHz.

Like I said, the law of oversampling is that same as gravity: whatever goes up must come down.

The negative effects of downsampling back to 44.1 or 48kHz as your audio passes out of one plugin and into the next are cumulative and destructive.

Working at a higher project sample rate means the audio stays at the upsampled rate end-to-end. This means oversampling is unnecessary, and is bypassed internally in your plugins. If your DAW supports non-destructive resampling on the fly (Studio One does), then you can freely switch between 48kHz and 96kHz or even 192kHz depending on if you're recording, mixing, or rendering. Record at a higher rate, work on the mix in real-time at a lower rate, and the export at the higher rate again. Then you use a high quality resampler like r8brain PRO or Wavelab's Crystal Resampler only once, on the final master.

1234Hi5! · Post by **1234Hi5!** » Sat Sep 09, 2023 9:41 pm

I think 46khz is the sweet spot

jamcat · Post by **jamcat** » Sat Sep 09, 2023 9:44 pm

sQeetz wrote: Sat Sep 09, 2023 1:46 pm Why do I, as an end user, have to choose to run everything @96kHz just because some plugins sound shitty at the rate they should sound good in the first place?

You don't. You can choose to stay shitty.

But, as I illustrated in our last discussion about this, it's not just some plugins. All plugins that oversample sound shitty, because they all have to downsample on the way out. And downsampling is always ugly. And, the shittiness accumulates as you add more plugins.

Don't get mad at math just because you don't want to use a professional sample rate.

pouletdegrains · Post by **pouletdegrains** » Sun Sep 10, 2023 3:23 am

sQeetz wrote: Sat Sep 09, 2023 4:30 pm
pouletdegrains wrote: Sat Sep 09, 2023 2:57 pm Agreed. I’ve uninstalled quite a few plugins on the past for this reason. However some great compressor plugins are very taxing CPU wise and/or induce quite a lot of latency: when tracking, using a less optimized but CPU-friendly plugin at 96kHz sometimes does the trick
Time to ditch this plugin, isn't it? When the workaround is to adjust your whole environment to the faulty plugin?

Yes I agree. I prefer to freeze track now when using larger session than using less optimal CPU-friendly plugins.

sQeetz · Post by **sQeetz** » Sun Sep 10, 2023 3:25 am

jamcat wrote: Sat Sep 09, 2023 9:44 pm
Don't get mad at math just because you don't want to use a professional sample rate.

It's not me not wanting to, it's them not doing it right.....

pouletdegrains · Post by **pouletdegrains** » Sun Sep 10, 2023 3:28 am

kritikon wrote: Sat Sep 09, 2023 8:02 pm TBH I don't use huge amounts of plugins, but I've never come across anything that doesn't work at 44.1. Are you being serious or just making this up? Name these plugins please. We should all know about plugins that can't work at 44.1. I get aliasing if they're using distortion/harmonics etc, but peak detection? There are dynamics plugins that can't compress or limit at 44.1, really...?

Compressor plugins which alias won't behave properly at a lower sample rate, especially when using short attack and release time. The folding back frequencies are added to the signal and will cause the plugin to behave improperly. This is true in the plugin main audio chain and in the side chain.

jethrobull · Post by **jethrobull** » Sun Sep 10, 2023 3:29 am

a professional sample rate.

44.1 kHz or 48 kHz?