KVR Audio

kritikon · Post by **kritikon** » Sat Sep 09, 2023 9:15 pm

Obvs standard has way more than elements, but it never really tempted me. Got elements as a freebie a way back and go through phases using it or not. Never thought much of the assistant, don't bother with the Eq and don't mess around with stereo image on my mixes anyway. The maximizer is fine, doesn't blow me away but it does still get some use. Used to be handy for analysis, but now Cubase has a great analyser I don't even use that much any more. BUT, checked out the new version list and I can get standard for $110 or somesuch so it tempts me. I know I won't use all the modules (no way I'm going to use distortion (saturation) on my master) but would use some, and it seems to pack way more in than last time I looked.

So what's good about it that makes you use it? Gimme a reason to buy it. I feel I need to spend some money

bpodolak · Post by **bpodolak** » Sun Sep 10, 2023 6:05 pm

ok cool! Here's the pitch for Ozone 11 Standard: First big thing is the inclusion of Transient/Sustain mode in a bunch of the modules. This is sort of a new dimension for making more precise enhancements to masters. It's included in seven of the modules in Standard - highlights are probably EQ, Imager, and Exciter.

Ozone Maximizer is the main limiter for a lot of the biggest top-tier mastering houses, I wouldn't write it off. The most advanced algorithm is IRC 4 - Transient, which iZotope has patented. In Ozone 11, the Maximizer has a new upward compress mode that does lifts quiet sections of a song in a really transparent way.

The Standard version also includes two modules that were previously advanced-only: Stabilizer and Master Rebalance. Stabilizer is great for adaptively balancing the tone across various sections of a song. Master Rebalance is great when working with subpar mixes where, for example, the vocal may not be loud enough. It can change the gain of Vocals, Bass, or Drums in a mixed file.

All of the modules have Delta buttons now, so you can hear exactly how the audio is being affected. This is especially useful in the Maximizer because you can hear the transients being buzzed off by the limiter.

Hope that helps!

kritikon · Post by **kritikon** » Sun Sep 10, 2023 10:53 pm

That's very useful, thanks. Good pitch. I guess the extra modes in the maximizer are better than the 2 in elements, so maybe that's why it never impressed me. Transient stuff in lots of modules...OK, yeah sounds useful. It actually occurs to me that if I get standard it could be used for channels/groups and for tracking, and the upward compression is a nice to have - I use Squasher in Cubase, but wary of using anything multiband on a master. Actually...it sounds like it might be more useful to me for tracking & processing a lot of the hw recording I do, with occasional mastering. Dunno why that never occurred to me

. Delta on everything - I like that, it's a huge bonus. I wish more plugins did that kind of thing...I love that feature on Kotelnikov. Stabilizer, is that dynamic Eq type thing?

Uncle E · Post by **Uncle E** » Mon Sep 11, 2023 12:09 am

Assistant is surprisingly good. It won't impress you much if you use it as-is but all you need to do is push the parameters a little bit. I was on the beta team for the assistant and the original version was much more impactful, I guess the other beta testers told iZotope it was too much.

kritikon · Post by **kritikon** » Mon Sep 11, 2023 12:50 am

The assistant usually just does the opposite of whatever I've done to my master. I don't much use Eq on the master but when I do, say to pull down the lower mids a bit or add a little sparkle at the top, or boost some specific bass...assistant pretty well undoes all of it. Or it doesn't do much of anything except louderise. I dunno whether that's good or bad, but it tells me one of two things:
1. My ears are broken, meaning I'm making daft choices
2. Maybe my mixing is bang on, but I just don't like the style of popular master Eq spread

I just never felt happy fighting an "intelligent" plugin. Maybe I should just let it win...

BONES · Post by **BONES** » Mon Sep 11, 2023 3:12 am

Having just spent the last 10 days mastering in Ozone 10 Advanced, I've found that Assistant always goes in the direction I need but it often doesn't go far enough. e.g. I'd identified an area in the lower mids where every song on the album was lacking. I'm not sure if it is just the instruments I use, my monitoring set-up, the way I mix or a side-effect of FireCobra and/or STA Enhancer, but it was something I decided I wanted to fix while mastering. Assistant found the right area in each mix and gave it a bit of a tweak but I found I had to be more heavy-handed with it to get things where they needed to be.

TBH, the way I work means that Ozone's only real job is to make the master as loud as possible. All the creative side of mastering is handled in the mix with FireCobra and STA Enhancer. Modules like the exciter don't really do anything like they used to a few years ago, before I started using those two mastering effects.

noiseboyuk · Post by **noiseboyuk** » Mon Sep 11, 2023 4:53 am

It's a bit of a tangent, but lower-mids is my curse too. Probably everyone's curse. Naturally when tracking, there's this huge build up there.

To be honest though, I've always felt that was better corrected at mix stage as it's usually clashing elements. I know Ozone 11 has the stem mode, but all you're doing is replicating a group mix so...

Begs the question of exactly what role mastering has today. The job exists because of history and physical limitations of tape and vinyl. Today we have unlimited control in our mixes and no master constraints in the same way so why bother with another stage on top? IMO the best case for it is just final level corrections and shaping an album.

BONES · Post by **BONES** » Mon Sep 11, 2023 5:38 am

My problem is the opposite - there isn't enough in the lower mids. It's a distinct dip in the frequency spectrum.

Agree on the role of mastering. To me it is a purely technical process to make sure the album holds together properly and that everything is as loud as everyone else's music.

Uncle E · Post by **Uncle E** » Mon Sep 11, 2023 6:10 am

kritikon wrote: Mon Sep 11, 2023 12:50 am The assistant usually just does the opposite of whatever I've done to my master. I don't much use Eq on the master but when I do, say to pull down the lower mids a bit or add a little sparkle at the top, or boost some specific bass...assistant pretty well undoes all of it.

Definitely don't use it after you've already started tweaking Ozone. You're right, it will literally undo anything you've done. But if you start with it and tweak after, you ought to be able to get it more to your liking.

AdvancedFollower · Post by **AdvancedFollower** » Mon Sep 11, 2023 9:21 am

I think they've made the Elements editions worse over the years. They used to contain a small, simplified subset of the modules in Standard/Advanced, but in 10 and 11 the UI is much more simplified with much less control over individual settings. If you're still on Ozone Elements 9, it's fine. You get basic versions of the EQ, Imager and Maximizer, which are enough for simple mastering. If you're on Elements 10+, Standard would be a huge upgrade because of the greater control and more modules.

I currently use Ozone 10 Standard. I use the assistant first to get in the ballpark, then I adjust the settings from there. The assistant is especially useful for setting up dynamic EQ since it's able to find and suppress resonant peaks much more accurately than I'm able to. I also use the regular EQ, Maximizer, Dynamics and Imager in almost all mixes. I don't usually use all modules, like the Exciter/Saturator, Vintage modules etc., but it's nice to have the option.

Also you can use the results of the Assistant to go back into your mix and tweak things instead of just relying on Ozone itself. For example if the assistant wants to apply a big EQ cut at some specific frequency, you can use this information to go back to your mix in the DAW and fix the problem, instead of just relying on the mastering EQ to fix it after the fact. It's like having a second pair of ears.

kritikon · Post by **kritikon** » Mon Sep 11, 2023 10:15 pm

All useful tips there, especially re using it to find dodgy areas of the mix and go back to fix them.

I reckon I'll probably get Ozone 11, for the price it seems like a good deal. Jeez, I just spent more than that on an order for wine delivery the other day. I suspect I just expected too much from elements, after all it is pretty basic. I'll try it a few ways mentioned in this thread, and if it doesn't gel with me for final mix then I'm pretty sure I'll get some use out of it for tracking etc.

kritikon · Post by **kritikon** » Mon Sep 11, 2023 10:19 pm

Which reminds me, Bones - I must check out that FireCobra thingy. I bought STA enhancer but pretty well stopped using it - too much of an Eq cut for my liking. If I could dial it down, then I'd definitely use it, as I like the other flavour it imparts. Any tips on FireCobra?

BONES · Post by **BONES** » Tue Sep 12, 2023 12:55 am

FireCobra is good because it has a wet/dry control so you can dial in as much as you want/need. I tend to keep it around 50/50. The other thing is I drive the shit out of it - I start with the "Warm the Suitcase" preset and I push the input up to +12, put the output to -12 to compensate, then start bringing it up slowly until I'm happy. I also dial in a bit of "Smack" to suit. Whenever I play with the other controls, I invariably move them back to the preset's values so I haven't bothered in ages.

As I suspected, it is STA Enhancer that's taking a big scoop out of my lower mids. I vaguely remember working that out when I first started using it but I had forgotten. It is very heavy-handed but I have it (and FireCobra) on the Master from the get-go so I mix around it.

One other thing about Ozone is that the Advanced version of the Assistant gives you the choice of "vintage" or "modern", which determines which sets of tools it uses. I tried both on a couple of mixes and found that "vintage" made for a muddier sound that wasn't as good as the "modern", so I ended up using "modern" on all of them.

My workflow was pretty simple. I render the mixes with FireCobra and STA Enhancer on. I bypass the brickwall limiter I use whilst mixing and turn the master level down to -5dB to ensure I don't break zero, then I render to 48kHz/24bit.

I used the Assistant to get an initial state, using a particularly loud VNV Nation song as a reference. From there I tried extra modules - Low End Focus, Imager, Exciter, Master Rebalance - in appropriate positions in the chain to see if they helped. Most of the time they didn't so I bypassed them (or deleted them).

Next I added the Tonal Balance Control to the Master, after Ozone, and checked the audio against the "Bass Heavy" profile. If I had to adjust anything, I pulled up the EQ (TBC links to Ozone, so it uses the EQ that's already in the chain) and did what was necessary.

The last thing I did was adjust the Threshold on the Maximiser to get the output level I was after - the reference track, it turned out, was a little bit too scarily loud for my liking. I wasn't aiming for any particular LUFS value, I just wanted everything to sound right.

The process was pretty quick and easy in the end. I had to go back and re-render mixes to fix issues on 3 or 4 songs but for those without issues, it really only took me 30-40 minutes per song. I find that once I get into a groove, it goes pretty smoothly and things that I hadn't really noticed suddenly pop out and are quite obvious. I had to go back and make one song a bit louder and other a bit quieter, to match the rest, but overall I felt I'd been pretty thorough and we're really happy with the results.

I'll deliver to the label this week so we'll see what they have to say but I am quietly confident they'll be pleased. They've heard the mixes, with FireCobra and STA Enhancer, so we know they are happy so far and mastering has definitely made a positive difference across the board.

Ozone elements vs standard - what's the extra value to you?