Sad state of Native Instruments

[elxsound]

Still only 8 encoders and a lot of wasted space for a high markup.

You'd think by Mk3 they would have finally decided to use some of that empty retail estate for some nice faders and pads

I am so happy they didn’t. Nothing wrong with anyone wanting it, I just never use those faders and pads and prefer not seeing something that never gets use.

I just want a nice keybed, MIDI 2.0 and I’m looking forward to plugin integration with u-he.

[machinesworking]

NKS2 products won't show the NKS2 benefits on mk1 and mk2 keyboards, since their hardware platform is not compatible with what mk3 keyboards are using (mk3s basically have a whole computer that renders stuff on the displays, this wasn't the case for mk1 or mk2 which just had some microcontroller and were shoveling pixels sent from your computer onto the display - very different approach).

If a plugin developer codes NKS2 compatability into their plugin, will it work with "basic" NKS1 benefits on the older hardware, or is it incompatible? Are we looking at a backwards compatible new format for developers to code for or not? It sounds more and more like there will be great compromises since developers aren't required to write as much code, so older hardware will be asking for pixels that possibly will not be there.

[rod_zero]

Still only 8 encoders and a lot of wasted space for a high markup.

You'd think by Mk3 they would have finally decided to use some of that empty retail estate for some nice faders and pads

I just wish for more encoders which make controlling their software synths more hands on.

Imagine something like 40 controls which allows a similar experience as the system 8 for the plug outs, but for NI and NKS synths.

[rod_zero]

Still only 8 encoders and a lot of wasted space for a high markup.

You'd think by Mk3 they would have finally decided to use some of that empty retail estate for some nice faders and pads

I am so happy they didn’t. Nothing wrong with anyone wanting it, I just never use those faders and pads and prefer not seeing something that never gets use.

I just want a nice keybed, MIDI 2.0 and I’m looking forward to plugin integration with u-he.

Wouldn't you like 8 faders for controlling envelopes, another 5 knobs for just the filter and 9 for the oscillators for controlling diva or hive?

[nightjar]

Nope. This isn’t just a controller for legacy synths. Such limited labeling would feel antiquated

[EvilDragon]

If a plugin developer codes NKS2 compatability into their plugin, will it work with "basic" NKS1 benefits on the older hardware, or is it incompatible? Are we looking at a backwards compatible new format for developers to code for or not? It sounds more and more like there will be great compromises since developers aren't required to write as much code, so older hardware will be asking for pixels that possibly will not be there.

NKS1 implementation is entirely separate to NKS2. Both need to exist to have a proper fallback.

[elxsound]

Still only 8 encoders and a lot of wasted space for a high markup.

You'd think by Mk3 they would have finally decided to use some of that empty retail estate for some nice faders and pads

I am so happy they didn’t. Nothing wrong with anyone wanting it, I just never use those faders and pads and prefer not seeing something that never gets use.

I just want a nice keybed, MIDI 2.0 and I’m looking forward to plugin integration with u-he.

Wouldn't you like 8 faders for controlling envelopes, another 5 knobs for just the filter and 9 for the oscillators for controlling diva or hive?

But then what happens when you load up Hive 2! Just gonna need more knobs and more faders!

I should be good just flipping through “groups”

I’m getting used to it on Push Standalone, so should be okay.

For me, it’s not that I’ll never use Midi faders or knobs, but I rather have a dedicated controller separate from the keys. It’s just how I like to work.

[VitaminD]

Still only 8 encoders and a lot of wasted space for a high markup.

You'd think by Mk3 they would have finally decided to use some of that empty retail estate for some nice faders and pads

Capitalism says no, Maschine MK4.

Capitalism is the reason we even have these products in the first place. So I wouldn't be too harsh about it.

But I do think it would have been great to have an audio Interface in the keyboard with which a Mini PC on one side and a Maschine Micro on the other side could make this a bit of a workstation.

Actually it's too bad they aren't just making a slot on the keyboard to fit a mini pc into it. Then you effectively would have an all-in-one device.

If underneath the surface deadspace on top is also empty, maybe someone could fit one in there (with a nice sized fan to the outside) and make their own? Or some kind of docking bay in the keyboard for a laptop even.

[machinesworking]

If a plugin developer codes NKS2 compatability into their plugin, will it work with "basic" NKS1 benefits on the older hardware, or is it incompatible? Are we looking at a backwards compatible new format for developers to code for or not? It sounds more and more like there will be great compromises since developers aren't required to write as much code, so older hardware will be asking for pixels that possibly will not be there.

NKS1 implementation is entirely separate to NKS2. Both need to exist to have a proper fallback.

So NKS1 and keyboards with NKS1 will eventually be deprecated, i.e. developers will have to do two sets of code to support both NKS1 and 2, which will stop happening eventually of course.

Arrgh! It's nothing you're in control of but this is so entirely predictable with NI, start a standard, release hardware for it, encourage an ecosystem, then replace or rewrite that standard without backwards compatibility. From Kore to Machine to KK NKS1 to NKS2, and that's just the surface.

I wish MIDI 2.0 addressed this sort of thing, as it stands it's a great argument for Bitwigs control surface support what with Moss designing support for NI hardware among other things.

[cryophonik]

Well, my pie-in-the-sky wish list for mk3 didn't materialize at all (e.g., more knobs, switches, and some sliders, more pages of assignable CCs, more 5-pin MIDI outs, ability to use it in standalone mode while powered by USB, support for NRPNs, etc.). Oh well, I'm not the target customer for an NKS controller anyway, but it really does look like a nice upgrade and my old mk2 had some very good things going for it.

[zerocrossing]

As far as I'm concerned, all's forgiven NI. You're back!

Anyone want to buy a lightly used Hydrasynth Deluxe?

[zerocrossing]

Still only 8 encoders and a lot of wasted space for a high markup.

You'd think by Mk3 they would have finally decided to use some of that empty retail estate for some nice faders and pads

I am so happy they didn’t. Nothing wrong with anyone wanting it, I just never use those faders and pads and prefer not seeing something that never gets use.

I just want a nice keybed, MIDI 2.0 and I’m looking forward to plugin integration with u-he.

Wouldn't you like 8 faders for controlling envelopes, another 5 knobs for just the filter and 9 for the oscillators for controlling diva or hive?

Not me. I set that all up with an old Remote 61 and literally used it once. I don't think all the sliders and knobs in the world are going to make editing a plugin enjoyable. Just give me 8 knobs to use for performance parameters and I'm happy. If I want to edit a hardware synth, I'll use a hardware synth.

[Echoes in the Attic]

Still only 8 encoders and a lot of wasted space for a high markup.

You'd think by Mk3 they would have finally decided to use some of that empty retail estate for some nice faders and pads

I just wish for more encoders which make controlling their software synths more hands on.

Imagine something like 40 controls which allows a similar experience as the system 8 for the plug outs, but for NI and NKS synths.

I think 16 encoders and 8 buttons for parameter mapping (not including the 8 for other functions) would have been perfect. You'd actually get somewhere between 2-3x the controls at a time given that the encoders often get used for buttons. Whoever thought of the idea of having to have toggles be controlled by encoders rather than hardware buttons is absolutely out to lunch. And they have now created a new NKS2 standard, which will force both themselves and all the other developers to remake all their NKS presets (not a small amount of work!), and they didn't even bother to rectify this. Kinda unbelievable actually.

And if they stick to 8 encoders, which is fine, they could have added button functionality with the existing hardware design with one simple extra shift button, which shifts the buttons from the functions they have now, to Kore style mapped buttons to the plugin. One extra button. Now would have been the time to do it, since they have to get everyone to redo all their NKS presets anyways. Blows my mind.

[elxsound]

As far as I'm concerned, all's forgiven NI. You're back!

Anyone want to buy a lightly used Hydrasynth Deluxe?

Begrudgingly, I agree. Already preordered.

[machinesworking]

My wish isn't hardware oriented, it's that Kontakt could interact with these keyboards without the Komplete Control plugin. One of the best things about the Komplete keyboards is the illumination of key switches in Kontakt, but that information comes from Kontakt, it shouldn't need the plug in IMO. Most of the key switch libraries are orchestral so it would be nice to be able to load multiple less CPU intensive patches into a single instance of Kontakt and switch between them etc. which isn't possible with one instance of Komplete Control.