Cubase - why bother to mixdown, why not just...

[kenny saunders]

...freeze?

Especially if you mix as you go, so you can keep all the same processing you have on the vsti's rather than having to duplicate it all again and disable the vsti channels?

Is there any problem with that?

[T-CM11]

- Freeze: to save CPU
- Mixdown: for anything else

[kenny saunders]

- Freeze: to save CPU
- Mixdown: for anything else

you forgot: disable and reload every single plugin and channel setting that you had for every vsti on each duplicate audio mixdown channel.

my point is that they are the same result, except freezing is less work.

[T-CM11]

- Freeze: to save CPU
- Mixdown: for anything else

you forgot: disable and reload every single plugin and channel setting that you had for every vsti on each duplicate audio mixdown channel.

my point is that they are the same result, except freezing is less work.

When I do a mixdown (not the "final mixdown"), I don't need the original tracks/VSTi/effects anymore.

[kritikon]

Freeze useful for saving CPU as mentioned. I find it too inflexible in Cubase though. Freeze means pretty well that - you can't do much with it afterwards. So I render, as I often want to bugger around with the audio afterwards, even simple thing like change mixing decisions and I want to cut/copy/paste sections, maybe tweak the FX after I find some errors etc. Yeah, I know you can unfreeze, but generally I'm rendering to audio at the point it's final decision on the base audio/sound/pattern. But the other stuff usually isn't final. Small differences but Freeze is just too rigid for me. Same result = rendered audio, but different route to get there.

[jancivil]

One big reason I render a "MIDI performance" especially with a sample library is, owing to the techiniques used to avoid the dullness and unrealistic sameness {such as round robin or a humanize strategy per se} is the final global render is frequently going to vary in a non-trivial fashion. So I can get an ideal timing and so forth rendering a few times, of certain things which bug me.

Also I can massage an audio clip in ways unique to audio; Cubase now has seamless time stretching (at least in the "Time" and "Formant Time" presets) not to mention sometimes I like offline processing of a region in the audio Part editor. I'm comfortable with these techniques by now and can commit without much second-guessing and going back into MIDI/the instrument.
This is not necessarily because I can't have the whole of it play back in real time, mind; but there are things which are troublesome (my Absynth patches are insane with long tails and that) I render quite early in the development of a thing.

[elxsound]

You could just save a copy that has non-mixed down tracks.

I would mixdown, render to audio, print effects, etc... as a way to make a commitment and move the f**k on to other stages.

There's no reason go back unless something is just always unfinished.

[kritikon]

There's never 1 right way to work. Ever.

[elxsound]

There's never 1 right way to work. Ever.

but if that’s “ever” then it means there’s only 1 right way, because there’s no right way, but that is the right way, but there’s no right way?


One more reason to bounce down…

Mixing is more than setting levels, it’s applying fx creatively to build interest. Using audio tracks make it easy to quickly slice a section to another track and apply effects just to that section.

Quickly is the key here… if that’s not important, then you might not care about adding the extra steps of duplicating a track, freeze/then flatten, then edit (vs just copying a section to a new track in 2 steps).

Kritikon is right, that there’s no singular way but one great thing about asking is that might find an option that works for you.

I’m a big believer in numbering and saving variations of projects/sets as I move along. This way I commit to what I want… until I dont, leaving me the option to go back if needed, or even to correct something if needed.

[jancivil]

Yes, I do that, eg., [untitled]fairly rendered.cpr vs [untitled]ATTN Altos & [untitled]Reconsider aud rend.cpr; vs [untitled].cpr by itself which means all the MIDI is active. "Altos" was treated completely differently than two other choirs, as it had to stand out without being louder or more in front (eg., more literal and figurative *ceiling* + different FX). I'll also render FX in the multiple batch export as their own files, particularly if there's delay or those long tails for a 'standout' part.

But to the initial point, freezing _is_ rendering but the file is invisible, I don't see an advantage, as rendering is typically taking mere seconds here.

[swilow11]

But the point of freezing isn't the same as the point of rendering. Freezing is really only an advantage when you need to free up resources. I freeze tracks that are either CPU hungry or if I kinda want them off my mind, whereas I render tracks when I want to start manipulating audio, or begin mixdown.

[kritikon]

Kinda. But the main reason I render is to save resources anyway. If I had a wizzbang superdupermegaHAL9000 laptop I could run all the VSTi and FX I want live right up to final mix/master and not have to freeze or render. So for me freezing/rendering is for the same thing. And I just find freezing too limiting in Cubase, so I render. If I had another DAW that does freezing differently, then maybe I'd use freeze more.

As for saving versions of mixes - thirded from me. I'm way too indecisive not to

[rollasoc]

I haven't used Freeze since render in place became a thing.

The problem with freeze, is if you want to recreate the song from the wav files (because the project is corrupt). It rarely lines up. Render in place solves that.

Then I just disable & hide the original track. I can also audio manipulate the rendered audio. Freeze moans if you try that!

[Freaqpeak]

You cant move or cut freezed tracks. Never liked it.

And.. Save CPU in 2023? 100 instances of Hive 2.1 and not going above 50% CPU...
(Thanks AMD)

[lfm]

And I just find freezing too limiting in Cubase, so I render. If I had another DAW that does freezing differently, then maybe I'd use freeze more.

Cakewalk/Sonar has the smoothest freezing feature that I discovered.
- one button press
- and you get visible audio of multiout instruments even in track view
- and it frees resources at the same time

Revert with one button press again.

Freeze in Cubase hides all audio in Project pool or whatever they call it.
And you see nothing in track view. You just hear it.

StudioOne was also multiple operations as I recall, you have to disable resources manually after freeze/render.

Cakewalk did it right....