KVR Audio

egbert101 · Post by **egbert101** » Sun Sep 17, 2023 1:37 pm

I would say to do simple things like "vote with your wallet" and don't support companies that are taking away stuff you bought, but we don't live in times of rational consumers any more (did we ever?). Also, freedom of speech is dwindling away, so soon we won't even be able to criticize developers or companies that are scamming their customers.

martiu · Post by **martiu** » Sun Sep 17, 2023 1:41 pm

u vil own nothin

Echoes in the Attic · Post by **Echoes in the Attic** » Sun Sep 17, 2023 2:04 pm

martiu wrote: Sun Sep 17, 2023 1:41 pm u vil own nothin

and be happy!

martiu · Post by **martiu** » Sun Sep 17, 2023 2:09 pm

El°HYM · Post by **El°HYM** » Sun Sep 17, 2023 2:31 pm

machinesworking · Post by **machinesworking** » Sun Sep 17, 2023 4:35 pm

aMUSEd wrote: Sun Sep 17, 2023 9:45 am No it's not the same as Apple Silicon. NKS1 still remains as the 'basic' tech for controlling plugins using their hardware. NKS1 is basically what you get if you map a few knobs to the hardware controller using the learn function (not midi learn) and then save that as a template for that plugin. That functionality can't be removed without making it impossible for musicians to do that basic thing. A fully developed NKS conversion adds other things like all presets saved as NKS, previews, thumbnails and a few .json files to integrate it into the database but I have made a lot of NKS conversions on that level and I can't see NI just removing that without losing the ability to map a plugin on the fly and save that configuration. NKS2 seems to be a much deeper level of integration using scripting and at the moment seems mainly a Kontakt thing, although clearly as Diva demonstrates there may also be some API level stuff going on with plugins. None of that is going to be accessible to the average musician so I think it's best to see NKS1/NKS2 more as having 2 levels of control possible in the new keyboard, instead of just the 1 in the current generation. 2 is not replacing 1, it just adds more possibilities.

The way EvilDragon explained it makes it seem like it's more work to code NK1 compatibility than NK2, i.e. it's possible that NK1 gets compromised and deprecated over time in favor of the leaner NK2 implementation.

machinesworking wrote: Wed Sep 13, 2023 4:28 pm
RobGee wrote: Wed Sep 13, 2023 3:51 pm
EvilDragon wrote: Tue Sep 12, 2023 10:24 pm
machinesworking wrote: Tue Sep 12, 2023 9:51 pmIf a plugin developer codes NKS2 compatability into their plugin, will it work with "basic" NKS1 benefits on the older hardware, or is it incompatible? Are we looking at a backwards compatible new format for developers to code for or not? It sounds more and more like there will be great compromises since developers aren't required to write as much code, so older hardware will be asking for pixels that possibly will not be there.
NKS1 implementation is entirely separate to NKS2. Both need to exist to have a proper fallback.
That doesn’t sound good, it’s now double the amount of work to support NKS. If you don’t develop for NKS 2 you miss out on all the new features and if you don’t develop for NKS 1 you alienate all the Maschine and Komplete Kontrol MK1 & 2 keyboard owners.
Yeah I'm still trying to figure out how that works out well for anyone? Hopefully EvilDragon just made it seem like much much more work for third party NKS developers, and it's actually fairly easy.

martinjuenke · Post by **martinjuenke** » Sun Sep 17, 2023 5:33 pm

Echoes in the Attic wrote: Sun Sep 17, 2023 2:04 pm
martiu wrote: Sun Sep 17, 2023 1:41 pm u vil own nothin
and be happy!

Nothing happy?
Be an owl!

The Renaissance man · Post by **The Renaissance man** » Sun Sep 17, 2023 5:59 pm

Hey EviDragon do you have any idea about animations? Would they be able to show modulations in the future and wavetable movements? Also what will MIDI 2.0 allow? Will all contact libraries be updated with Polly Aftertouch? And what about massive?

sacer · Post by **sacer** » Sun Sep 17, 2023 6:18 pm

Lets wait how these new keyboard gets sold - I don’t see any improvement over the last generation.
Push3 was with MPE a big step forward, compared to push2. NI is out of innovation and think a fancy nice screen and direct control of Kontakt could improve your workflow? It has no touchscreen, so what else can you do, instead of turning 8 knobs ?

On software it’s the same development, we are the first people frustrated with NI and I bet there will many people follow. Maybe Komplete Kontrol NKS1 will be abandoned like Kore with their next evolution. In 5 years nobody cares about their current product range.

aMUSEd · Post by **aMUSEd** » Sun Sep 17, 2023 7:21 pm

'Push3 was with MPE a big step forward'

And the MKIII Keyboards now have Poly aftertouch - that in itself is just as huge. These are now amongst the most advanced keyboard controllers available in this price range

sacer · Post by **sacer** » Sun Sep 17, 2023 7:34 pm

aMUSEd wrote: Sun Sep 17, 2023 7:21 pm 'Push3 was with MPE a big step forward'

And the MKIII Keyboards now have Poly aftertouch - that in itself is just as huge. These are now amongst the most advanced keyboard controllers available in this price range

No I would prefer a Novation sl mk3 for less money. Main advantage is that it doesn’t needs this buggy Komplete Kontrol and offers everything on hardware with real midi send and cv out.
In Ableton you can control plugins and racks like with Komplete Kontrol, you only have to miss the browser with the Novation. And to be honest, you only have access to NKS sounds. If you buy a preset library for dune3 or diva, than in most cases, you don’t have them in NKS.
I bought lots of NKS libraries from https://freelancesoundlabs.com/index.ph ... -vst-packs

Now my Komplete Kontrol needs 4 minutes to show up the plugin.
I have deleted some xml files like Korg, which has fasten up my loading time to a minute.
I am done with NKS and will never look back.

machinesworking · Post by **machinesworking** » Sun Sep 17, 2023 7:43 pm

sacer wrote: Sun Sep 17, 2023 7:34 pm No I would prefer a Novation sl mk3 for less money. Main advantage is that it doesn’t needs this buggy Komplete Kontrol and offers everything on hardware with real midi send and cv out.
In Ableton you can control plugins and racks like with Komplete Kontrol, you only have to miss the browser with the Novation.

I like Novation and the SL MKII looks amazing, but the KK keyboards all have basic CC control as well as NKS, they also do DAW integration, which is supplied by the DAW, so doesn't require NI software. I have the KK SL88 MKII and it's great, I don't see a need to sell it because I don't use NKS much, it has control surface support for nearly every DAW I own, and CC control for basic manipulation of plugins etc.

If I ever get another 61 or 49 key controller it will be a hard choice between the Novation MKIII and the new NKS2 keybaords, depends on how many of my plug in developers jump on board with VST3 versions of NKS. The Novation is future proof though, since it's mostly hardware controlled.

sacer · Post by **sacer** » Sun Sep 17, 2023 7:49 pm

Novation also has a very well integration in Ableton, where you don’t need midi CC and have direct access to the plug-ins like with push or apc40.
But I don’t know the integration to other DAW, but I think bin Bitwig it would also work like in abletob

Echoes in the Attic · Post by **Echoes in the Attic** » Sun Sep 17, 2023 8:27 pm

aMUSEd wrote: Sun Sep 17, 2023 7:21 pm 'Push3 was with MPE a big step forward'

And the MKIII Keyboards now have Poly aftertouch - that in itself is just as huge. These are now amongst the most advanced keyboard controllers available in this price range

It is indeed nice to see NI catch up to keyboard technology of several decades ago. Perhaps by 2040 they will have mpe keyboards like the Osmose!

And maybe by that time they will also have 8 buttons for parameter mapping along with their 8 encoders. Someone at NI will open a time capsule and find an NI Kore and get a brilliant idea for the next gen keyboards.

sacer · Post by **sacer** » Sun Sep 17, 2023 9:22 pm

Echoes in the Attic wrote: Sun Sep 17, 2023 8:27 pm
aMUSEd wrote: Sun Sep 17, 2023 7:21 pm 'Push3 was with MPE a big step forward'

And the MKIII Keyboards now have Poly aftertouch - that in itself is just as huge. These are now amongst the most advanced keyboard controllers available in this price range
It is indeed nice to see NI catch up to keyboard technology of several decades ago. Perhaps by 2040 they will have mpe keyboards like the Osmose! And maybe by that time they will also have 8 buttons for parameter mapping along with their 8 encoders. Someone at NI will open a time capsule and find an NI Kore and get a brilliant idea for the next gen keyboards.

Kore2 was really great but the problems are the same. When you move from Komplete 4 to 5 or Komplete 7. You can’t edit kore2 patches if you have only Kontakt 5 installed. You need to keep the older versions installed. Otherwise there was no edit of the kore sound. On Maschine they have done the same. It was much work for them to update all Reaktor 5 sounds, to make them open in Reaktor 6.
Kore2 was really complex, where you was able to use more than one synth and layer sounds and it has nice morph function, to dive through 8 different presets of a single kore sound. So yeah - NKS is a real big step backward and kore2 was much more advanced

Sad state of Native Instruments