Mixing

[Jesse Gorter]

Actually, I found the new prodigy cd superbly mixed! It's a shame the leak promo is floating online as well, doesn't do the cd justice at all even though it's in a high bitrate.

The actual cd is louder than any cd before they made...and live the bass kicks ass. But yeah, there's no bass as in Breathe, just lots of analogue microkorg basses in Girls etc..

[rsmus7]

I play my music on my home stereo system and all of my songs sound too bassy. Then I will try my songs in my car and the same thing, too much bass.
What am I doing wrong?
If i go and use eq on all my songs to cut out some of the bass, then my music sounds like shit on my headphones but sounds better on HIfi stereo's.

yep, the prob with the headphones is that we recieve (and listen) to bass frequencies also with our breastbone (sternum).
Thats not a joke, simply a phisical circumstance.

If we listen through our headphones we dont have the breastbone vibration and tend to turn up the bass frequencies.

Thats why the mix sounds so crappy over hifi systems or monitor speakers.
If you know that and you know the relation between your headphones and your hifisystem you can mix over the headphones, but you have a crappy sound on them, and you know it will sound good on the hifi.

I had the same problems and decided to use monitor speakers for the mixing and the headphones only for soundprogramming and some details I want to catch, but not the bass.
Since I use speakers my mixing quality has much improved.

ANd as many others already said if you learn your gear your results will get better.

[chagzuki]

Actually, I found the new prodigy cd superbly mixed!

Oh, it is very well mixed. It's illustrates the point very well that the fewer elements there are in a mix, the less potential problems there will be, i.e. keep things simple and mixing is much easier. Contrast this with Key's mixes where there's loads of stuff going on but despite this there is amazing clarity.

[chagzuki]

Its funny that you mention skinny puppy and prodigy because those sounds are which I am aiming my music after. I definetly perfer good strong bass, which is how my music sounds on headphones, but its just too muddy and bassy on other speakers, which begins to choke out all the midrange instruments.
Like many said above I need monitors.

You've indicated the solution to the problem: the bass interferes with the mid-range. Conflict arises where sounds overlap, causing the musical meaning and definition of those sounds to get blurred. You have to use EQ to remove selective elements of those sounds until the amount of overlap is at a stage where you no longer perceive them to be conflicting. This is an art form, and there's no shortcut to gaining the necessary knowledge, you just have to practise, practise, practise. I know it's demoralising when you've finished a tune in terms of arrangement and you just can't nail the mix, but what can you do? Either keep working at it, or pass it on to someone else.

[scam_artist]

You've indicated the solution to the problem: the bass interferes with the mid-range. Conflict arises where sounds overlap, causing the musical meaning and definition of those sounds to get blurred. You have to use EQ to remove selective elements of those sounds until the amount of overlap is at a stage where you no longer perceive them to be conflicting. This is an art form, and there's no shortcut to gaining the necessary knowledge, you just have to practise, practise, practise. I know it's demoralising when you've finished a tune in terms of arrangement and you just can't nail the mix, but what can you do? Either keep working at it, or pass it on to someone else.

wise words.

I'm not pumping out "great" mixes myself yet, but they're alot better than they were a couple of years ago. The more you try to mix, the better you'll get at it

Edit: And burn your mixes to CD, and listen to them on a variety of systems (your car stereo, your mate's wicked sound system, your uncle's crap portable hifi)... Everyone will tell you this, but I can't stress this point enough - the problem is, where you are mixing (at home?) won't be perfect (I know mine isn't) because room acoustics and your equipment will give you a more inaccurate mix (especially with bass, I have found). Listening on different systems of different quality in different rooms will give you a much clearer idea of what is going on in your mix, so you can reach for the EQ etc with more confidence

[BONES]

I think the key is using a set-up with which you are familiar. A commercial studio needs monitors with a flat response so that anyone can come in and get a relaible sound. At home we have the advantage of listening to all our favourite music through the same speakers we use to mix our own stuff. That gives us a much better base from which to work. You should certainly not rely on headphones. If you can't afford proper monitors then run a line into your stereo and use that. I used my stereo for years until I found some monitors I could afford and live with [size].

[unic]

That's sort of a sane point, but doesn't explain something that has personally interested me - justification of use of a subwoofer while mixing. My opinion is headphones are 100% more appropriate and convenient for editing, unless you get fatigue.

I think the key is using a set-up with which you are familiar. A commercial studio needs monitors with a flat response so that anyone can come in and get a relaible sound. At home we have the advantage of listening to all our favourite music through the same speakers we use to mix our own stuff. That gives us a much better base from which to work. You should certainly not rely on headphones. If you can't afford proper monitors then run a line into your stereo and use that. I used my stereo for years until I found some monitors I could afford and live with [size].

[Josmoker]

That's sort of a sane point, but doesn't explain something that has personally interested me - justification of use of a subwoofer while mixing.

Hi unic,

Have you ever tried using a subwoofer while mixing? And what kind of music are you making?
With bass-heavy material a subwoofer can enhance the accurate representation of the deeper basses a lot. Also depends on the type of speakers you're using of course - smaller monitors will usually be a bit weak on bass.
Personally, a subwoofer was one of the best buys I ever made for music...

Cheers, Jo

[scamme]

Flat headphones NOT enough, you need to build a proper accustic environment and to check what frequencys are "active" in the room.

For example:
The room is 3m of hight, 4m of width and 5m of length.



f(frequency)=331.4(speed of sound) / 3 & 4 & 5(room size)=Hz(room frequency)


f= 331.4 / 3 =110.46 Hz

f= 331.4 / 4 =82.58 Hz

f= 331.4 / 5 =66.28 Hz

This three freqs need to go DOWN a few db's with very thin "q".

(and notice that all three are in a "bass" sound area)

Good luck!
Hope it's understandable.

[SAB]

I've just completed a song after having a dry spell for years and it contained Artistdrums and Trilogy bass. The funny thing is that I definitely don't need to add bass to the mix as both have plenty of punch in there natural state therefore I had to bring much of it down in the mix by de-eqing the low frequencies as it was drowning out my mids and some hi's.
In my experience, I found that the lower the levels that I listen to on my monitors or headphones the better the mix comes out. What I mean by that is that when I listen the the music at very low levels, I find that instruments that are too loud begin to come forward and thus it allows me to bring them down in the mix or those instruments that can no longer be heard up in the mix. When I listen to the mix at a loud level, everything seems to be masked by the other instruments and thus my ears are somewhat fooled and masking the problem.

Try it, you might find success in doing it this way. I learned this from a friend music engineer and it seems to work for me.

Another trick is to get a spectrum analyzer not too expensive. This appears to give me a picture as to what frequencies are too loud. You might enjoy seeing as well as hearing when final mixing.

[Timfonie]

f= 331.4 / 3 =66.28 Hz

f= 331.4 / 4 =82.58 Hz

f= 331.4 / 5 =110.46 Hz

This three freqs need to go DOWN a few db's with very thin "q".

(and notice that all three are in a "bass" sound area)

Good luck!
Hope it's understandable.

Thanks. It is. (Even though 66 and 110 Hz should change places .)

I always enjoy bathroom singing at "standing-wave" frequencies. It's some kind of natural loudness-maximizer.

[LoRez]

As has been said over and over...don't mix on headphones. Fine for getting some parts down and editing but not for mixing...not matter how good they are. Great for checking mixes though. I used to have the same problem with bass that you have and the answer is yes you have too much bass...too much of certain frequencies most likely.

Solutions:
1) Mix on speakers, preferably good ones.
2) Use a subwoofer, especially if you do dance music or anything. How do you know what is happening in the low frequencies if you can't hear them or feel them? Ans. You can't!
3) Multiband Compression. Get multiband comp plug and learn to use it. It is highly unlikely you will get a good pro sounding mix of even relatively complex material without one. Great for Drum bus too!
4) Proper use of single band compression as well as a touch of EQ here and there can work wonders. Try rolling off the low end of instruments other than bass and drums (i.e. guitars, synths) as this will leave more room for the intended bass instruments and make them sound punchier, clearer, and with less mud.
5) Listen to it on lots of systems and compare with CD's that you like the sound of. Go back and tweak over and over if need be and you will get to know what you need to do to get "that sound"
6) Use a spectrum analyzer so you can literally see how flat or how "peaky" your mix is. You can also use it to help tame individual instruments.

Hope some of this helps and is at least complimentary to what has been said already.

[pooshka]

beside taking note of all the other tips/advice in this thread, one thing to always bear in mind is that obviously you have to write/arrange parts of your music in a way that they do not conflict with each other. if the bass line or the upper harmonics of bassline is intruding the midrange parts in non-musical way things will sound like a mess. very often i find that having particulary 'muddy' frequency range in a mix often has as much to do with arrangement as levels of each part. just think about how an unmiked accoustic band can still manage to have clarity in their sound in live settings without using any EQ.

in general i just start to feel doubtful about effectiveness of part/song arrangement if i have to 'rely' on eq to carve out some sound in one part to accomodate another part

[SAB]

A great spectrum analyser is HAR-BAL. Try it on the final mix. It works wonders for me.

[scamme]

f= 331.4 / 3 =66.28 Hz

f= 331.4 / 4 =82.58 Hz

f= 331.4 / 5 =110.46 Hz

This three freqs need to go DOWN a few db's with very thin "q".

(and notice that all three are in a "bass" sound area)

Good luck!
Hope it's understandable.

Thanks. It is. (Even though 66 and 110 Hz should change places .)

I always enjoy bathroom singing at "standing-wave" frequencies. It's some kind of natural loudness-maximizer.

My bad, sorry!
Thanx.