enlighten me please on mid/side processing vs. dynamic EQing

How to do this, that and the other. Share, learn, teach. How did X do that? How can I sound like Y?
Post Reply New Topic
RELATED
PRODUCTS

Post

Hello everybody,
i´ve never donne any mid/side stuff.
(edit: changed the header to (solved) / but: if you have more feedback: thats welcome ;))

i need some help vs. the basic understanding of the mid side concept, and how to work, vs. dynamic EQing (and some more dynamic tailorment / its really just about dynamics for my start)
For example: i´d like to create completly different dynamic-enhancing or dynamic-taming of bands, mid vs. side, at the same frequenzy.

Lets take the FF pro-Q as an example EQ.
1. As far i understand could i take a band, set it to mid,....set the dynamics, then take another band, place it at the same Frequency, set it to "side", ....and set the dynamics completly different.
For example, boosting the bass on the mids, while clamping down the bass at the same time on the sides.
Is this so correct, thats how it works, ie: doable ?

2. But what if i´d do same with a path split up, creating a own audio path for the mid and one for the "side" processing. Would there be any difference in sound, using a own pro-Q instance for mid, and another for "side"( same EQ settings, just split up to two EQ instances) ? ( increasing the CPU load)

me: allready happy if i got to understand the above. ;)
below, thats the more complicated one. (Hope my wording is clear enough)

3. What if i want to add additional compression or other VCA based dynamic tools to my mid-side processing, how do i proceed with this ?

4. i might have to go with a split up audio path anyway.
But what if i want to keep the mid-side EQing on a stereo bus, but want to split that audio signal up into own mid vs. side stereo signal later, ......after some mid-side processing has allready been apllyed ?
How would i create "then" such a mid vs. sides split up ?
what tools/plugins to take ?
(i´m not necessarily DAW based. More working in a non track-based plugin host)
Last edited by Funky40 on Sun Sep 24, 2023 6:10 pm, edited 4 times in total.

Post

Funky40 wrote: Fri Sep 22, 2023 2:46 pm i need some help vs. the basic understanding of the
Lets take the FF pro-Q as an example EQ.
1. As far i understand could i take a band, set it to mid,....set the dynamics, then take another band, place it at the same Frequency, set it to "side", ....and set the dynamics completly different.
For example, boosting the bass on the mids, while clamping down the bass at the same time on the sides.
Is this so correct, thats how it works, ie: doable ?
Correct! You can manipulate mid and side independently in a single plugin like Pro Q3.
Funky40 wrote: Fri Sep 22, 2023 2:46 pm 2. But what if i´d do same with a path split up, creating a own audio path for the mid and one for the "side" processing. Would there be any difference in sound, using a own pro-Q instance for mid, and another for "side"( same EQ settings, just split up to two EQ instances) ? ( increasing the CPU load)
There should be no difference, as long as the plugin does not introduce nonlinearities. The advantage of Pro Q3 is that you can quickly manipulate both mid and side in a single window. You can think of it as a workflow improvement.
Funky40 wrote: Fri Sep 22, 2023 2:46 pm 3. What if i want to add additional compression or other VCA based dynamic tools to my mid-side processing, how do i proceed with this ?
You would need a plugin that has mid/side processing capabilities like Fabfilter C2. Or you can use a DAW like Bitwig that has a dedicated mid/side device that allows you to put any plugin on the mid channel and another on the side channel (in this case it would be a compressor plugin, or you could even use a different compressor for the side channel).
Funky40 wrote: Fri Sep 22, 2023 2:46 pm 4. i might have to go with a split up audio path anyway.
But what if i want to keep the mid-side EQing on a stereo bus, but want to split that audio signal up into own mid vs. side stereo signal later, ......after some mid-side processing has allready been apllyed ?
How would i create "then" such a mid vs. sides split up ?
I don't fully understand the question. If you use mid/side processing on the master and afterwards you want to split it again, then you will receive the processed mid/side at that stage. If you use Pro Q3 with mid/side processing and afterwards you use a different plugin like a compressor with mid/side capabilities, then you'll feed the processed mid/side channels into the compressor.
Funky40 wrote: Fri Sep 22, 2023 2:46 pm what tools/plugins to take ?
(i´m not necessarily DAW based. More working in a non track-based plugin host)
You can use plugins with dedicated mid/side processing or hosts like Bitwig that have a device to split the channels into mid/side and process them independently.

Post

muzicxs wrote: Sat Sep 23, 2023 5:28 pm You can think of it as a workflow improvement.
Yup. I was just not sure if there is any advantage to work with a split path.
muzicxs wrote: Sat Sep 23, 2023 5:28 pm Or you can use a DAW like Bitwig that has a dedicated mid/side device that allows you to put any plugin on the mid channel and another on the side channel (in this case it would be a compressor plugin, or you could even use a different compressor for the side channel).
interesting ! i am not a DAW person, but i have bitwig 4.5 or so (2nd last one)
Need to check.

Thank you @muzicxs to take the time ! Much appreciated !

It just helped me to overcome my stumbling block in my brain.
The "mid/side" idea was confusing me.
But now i see, when the mid/side processing has happened within a plugin, past that plugin its still just a stereo signal !
The next plugin in chain will pick it up as just that stereo signal it still is, and will apply its own mi/side processing (if set so). Afterwards its again just a normal stereo signal,....just with a altered signal information in regards to its stereo balance.......
But the signal itself is not mid/side. The "processing" is mid/side.
The signal itself is allways stereo.
# conclusions
:tu:


my aim is to create dynamic controls, different for mid vs. its side signal.
for example push the bass dynamically on the mids, while clamping same bass down on the sides, etc. Thats what made my brain think there is more to it.....


first tests were, well, ...i have a hard time to hear it, haha

Post

You're welcome! The signal will indeed remain stereo and the plugin only processes the mid/side channels.

Keep in mind that mid/side is not at all a descriptive name for what's happening. Sum / difference would be a better description. Difference being the difference of the left and right channel. Sum being the signal that's exactly the same in both channels.

You can never separate the channels in a pure mid or pure side channel, and that's also not what mid/side processing is about (see at 3.22: https://youtu.be/PtI8IVOUlAk?si=KVRj369aKq3AVnix).

Post

muzicxs wrote: Sat Sep 23, 2023 8:59 pm Keep in mind that mid/side is not at all a descriptive name for what's happening. Sum / difference would be a better description.

 
uhh, ok ! that changes just about everything for me, i suspect.
So, i had NO idea what mid/side in fact is.

here is the article your posted video was pointing towards:
https://www.izotope.com/en/learn/8-comm ... l#mistake1

i need to think about it. wow
point for me is, i want to create a more 3D "vivid image" within my sounds.
So, i first *have* to create a stereo-field of some sort within my sound........but in my case vs. frequenzies ( frequenzy distribution vs. panorama,....i think)

i don´t deal with production work/mixes.
I deal with single instrument signals + creative FX. (in this case some sort of creative delay /delay setups)

Much thanks @muzicxs !
will be fun to see where i end up......

Post

You're welcome and enjoy your mid/side journey!

Post Reply

Return to “Production Techniques”