Tal J-8

[Teksonik]

At any rate if the mysterious distributor was indeed Plugivery then that certainly didn't help the situation. I'm a member of their forums and they are lacking in engagement even there. It seems like Plugivery might be a hobby or side hustle rather than a main gig to them even as they ask the public to beta test updated Nomad Factory plugins.

I see at the time of this post at least one person has not received a license or refund so we should definitely be discussing situations like this despite the protestations of those with gossamer skins.

We are a community here (or should be at least) so we need to look out for each other. If one of us gets mistreated then we all get mistreated.

If vendors or distributors or developers drop the ball then they should get called out for it. If that triggers you then you're not a true member of the community.

[Teksonik]

Before I go I'll ask....what if this situation involved Plugin Alliance or any of the other let's say more controversial vendors or developers? Would the reaction be different? It shouldn't be.

Now let's all go make some music......

[chk071]

Before I go I'll ask....what if this situation involved Plugin Alliance or any of the other let's say more controversial vendors or developers?

For sure.

Actually, I'm even surprised that some blame TAL, or even don't want to do business with them anymore. Imagine this was NI, or Plugin Alliance, or Waves. Fkn hell.

[Uncle E]

It wasn't Plugivery.

I can assure you that TAL was hurt by this far more than anyone else. Isn't that enough? Do we have to keep dragging him through the mud?

[audiouser720]

Who cares about missing a deal, it is the way TAL handled the communication that was wrong.

these days, staying silent on social media and letting the problem forget about itself after a few months is actually a decently successful strategy. maybe classier than airing all the dirty laundry anyway.

I'm not speaking about the dirty laudry, just a message to the hundreds of potential TAL customers whose order was cancelled.

Yes but i suspect such a message would inevitably get into the "why" of the cancellation, which gets into dirty laundry, blame game, etc, at least from what we've seen so far. Otherwise what would be the point of the message?

To be fair he didn’t mean message as in an explanation. A message can be as simple as ‘we are sorry for the inconvenience that has been caused’
No need to go into further detail. Sometimes that’s all what people need to feel valued. A simple sorry…

On the other hand, saying that somebody won’t buy TAL products because of this, is utter nonsense. I’ve been affected. But I will not refuse buying from them because of this, ever. If I need something they have because it’s good, I will be buying it.

But don’t take me as a good example because I use Waves as well, so you know… To me the only thing matters is the quality of the plugin. If it’s good it’s good. Don’t care about politics, business, ilok, online activation blah blah blah. If you like, use it.
Nobody refused using an EMT140 back then because it was fcking heavy, noisy and inconvenient. They needed the sound so the rest was secondary. They made music instead of getting hold onto unimportant factors.

[audiouser720]

It wasn't Plugivery.

I can assure you that TAL was hurt by this far more than anyone else. Isn't that enough? Do we have to keep dragging him through the mud?

I personally think, but definitely hope, that it’s not as bad for them. At least, on this forum everyone either loves their products and therefore they will keep supporting them, or the other group actually wanted to use their products. So everyone agrees that their products are amazing, and that’s the most important thing. Not mention the amount of world class music productions where TAL products were involved. They may be a small company, but I can reassure you that their repetition is nothing but excellent. This issue won’t determine their future. I genuinely hope that this is the case. It will be forgotten in a week. And when the next TAL product is out (hopefully ppg wave, or a jupi 4) everyone will get instant wet again.

[midi sentinel]

Before I go I'll ask....what if this situation involved Plugin Alliance or any of the other let's say more controversial vendors or developers? Would the reaction be different? It shouldn't be.

Indeed. For me, biggest issue with this 'discussion' is not TAL or AD, issue is double standards.

I was absolutely stunned with amount of shit ADSR/iZotope got for that Nectar pricing error. It was hard to believe people would be able to rage that much about a thing so benign.

But when it happens with someone who is more 'liked', then it's suddenly different and all kinds of stupid rationalizations and justifications appear out of nowhere.

So many people thrive on drama...

[FapFilter]

Maybe it’s because TAL is generally known to be one of the most reliable and “lunatically“ working developer on this planet and this didn’t really look like his style at all?

[aaaatttt]

This is one of the best VST I bought this year.

[mjudge55]

Before I go I'll ask....what if this situation involved Plugin Alliance or any of the other let's say more controversial vendors or developers? Would the reaction be different? It shouldn't be.

Indeed. For me, biggest issue with this 'discussion' is not TAL or AD, issue is double standards.

I was absolutely stunned with amount of shit ADSR/iZotope got for that Nectar pricing error. It was hard to believe people would be able to rage that much about a thing so benign.

But when it happens with someone who is more 'liked', then it's suddenly different and all kinds of stupid rationalizations and justifications appear out of nowhere.

So many people thrive on drama...

I mean reputation is everything and this is why. Not to be dramatic, I feel very chill about J-8gate.

[beely]

I guess I'm left with a bad taste, and disinclined to use J-8 (good as it is), as I bought a licence (regardless of who's at fault for this) at a price I now know the developer feels is insulting for their work.

What I feel like I should do is buy another, "proper" licence at full market value. However the full price is beyond what I am prepared to pay for a plugin currently, so that's not really an option right now. Maybe I might put some money aside for a while until I can re-buy it later at full price. Or possibly I might just scrap the license and delete it - I'm not sure yet. But I sure don't feel good about it.

I have no bad feeling to the dev, or any of the resellers/dealers involved - it was a mistake, stuff happens.

[Agreed]

Eh, I don't think it is such a big problem. I was unfamiliar with TAL outside of some older plugins like Dub until this happened and truthfully might not have checked out J-8 otherwise as I do have other Juno emulations that I like. But, I was browsing Audio Deluxe's sale and happened onto it, and it turns out to be an excellent plugin. I agree in principle that it's worth the asking price. I am now much more likely to buy other TAL plugins because of this (and indeed I probably will buy Drum at Black Friday, it was looking pretty cool!).

I especially would not feel bad if you got it registered because those licenses were already on hand and Patrick had agreed to the sale price via email communication. His later regret at his erroneous haste notwithstanding, they did have every right to sell the licenses they had on hand at the price stated. TAL is doing the right thing by honoring those sales because they were legitimate. You bought the tool legitimately and registered it legitimately, it isn't warez. People should definitely be careful what they agree to but that does not mean that you ought to re-pay for the same thing or avoid using it out of principle. That's going much farther than you have to ethically, an overstep in the opposite direction of never giving TAL a dime because of this (though rooted in much kinder principles at least).

Nothing wrong with going above and beyond if it is your attitude and you just feel that strongly about it (and from references here, clearly Patrick has earned a lot of respect from his customers), but for my part I'm glad to be paying attention to TAL again after all these years and I'll be happy to do business with them in the future if I have a need one of their products might fill.

[chk071]

I guess I'm left with a bad taste, and disinclined to use J-8 (good as it is), as I bought a licence (regardless of who's at fault for this) at a price I now know the developer feels is insulting for their work.

You neither have to feel bad about it (why? lol), nor did the dev says that it's "insultive" to his work. He said that he can't offer at such prices, because such prices won't work with their business model (i.e., it doesn't get him the food on his table).

Seriously, the amount of fuss made about this is mind boggling. From people getting so pissed off that they erase everything TAL from their system, to people having a gulty conscience about getting the plugins for that price. Really, I think there are more pressing issues in this world.

[Dencheg]

I guess I'm left with a bad taste, and disinclined to use J-8 (good as it is), as I bought a licence (regardless of who's at fault for this) at a price I now know the developer feels is insulting for their work.

What I feel like I should do is buy another, "proper" licence at full market value. However the full price is beyond what I am prepared to pay for a plugin currently, so that's not really an option right now. Maybe I might put some money aside for a while until I can re-buy it later at full price. Or possibly I might just scrap the license and delete it - I'm not sure yet. But I sure don't feel good about it.

I have no bad feeling to the dev, or any of the resellers/dealers involved - it was a mistake, stuff happens.

As a workaround - wait for a sale (perhaps BF, if TAL decides to participate), buy other instrument(s) from TAL

[chk071]

I guess I'm left with a bad taste, and disinclined to use J-8 (good as it is), as I bought a licence (regardless of who's at fault for this) at a price I now know the developer feels is insulting for their work.

You neither have to feel bad about it (why? lol), nor did the dev says that it's "insultive" to his work. He said that he can't offer at such prices, because such prices won't work with their business model (i.e., it doesn't get him the food on his table).

Seriously, the amount of fuss made about this is mind boggling. From people getting so pissed off that they erase everything TAL from their system, to people having a gulty conscience about getting the plugins for that price. Really, I think there are more pressing issues in this world.

This is probably for Hyde Park Corner but something about modern living's got us all viewing these microtransactions in such morally fraught terms. It's like we've vanquished religion so now we have to find sin in like... plastic straws.

True true.