KVR Audio

Igelhaft · Post by **Igelhaft** » Sat Oct 21, 2023 12:59 pm

Finding such a thriving second hand market for software was a bit shocking at first, but I think it may just come down to the culture around music.

Big retailers like Guitar Center and Sweetwater have secondhand sections on their sites, and in general I think people just expect to be able to buy or sell their gear secondhand for whatever reason (musicians often having cashflow problems seems like it might be a factor), and this attitude extended to software as well.

Whatever the cause it is very much a part of the music software landscape, with big players like Ableton and FabFilter and iLok having automated processes in place to support it.

Can I ask, when you re-sell licenses, is there a website that typically occurs on?

KVR has a bustling forum for it, Knobcloud is also great, vi-control and Gearspace also have forums. Those are the main ones, though you can find it anywhere people talk.

lin0x · Post by **lin0x** » Sat Oct 21, 2023 1:57 pm

Minimal Audio wrote: Sat Oct 21, 2023 2:59 am Can I ask, when you re-sell licenses, is there a website that typically occurs on?

Apart from a few audio forums (KVR itself -viewforum.php?f=43, audiosex), I have seen people selling their VST/DAW licenses through Knobcloud.

kraster · Post by **kraster** » Sat Oct 21, 2023 3:09 pm

Echoes in the Attic wrote: Fri Oct 20, 2023 7:07 pm
Gribs wrote: Fri Oct 20, 2023 4:41 pm Falcon 3 dropped yesterday and is on sale for $200 (free update for current license owners). There is just no contest over “Current” at the same price. Current should be $99 and on an intro sale for $66.
Personally I would definitely chose Current over Falcon at the same price. Far prefer the workflow and sound as well. Personal preference of course but I think they deserve to be in the same price range, at least while Flacon is on sale.

I don't think they're really comparable.

Falcon is more like a workstation. It's kind of limitless and open ended.

Current is fixed in its form and designed around quick access to those functions.

They both sound excellent, imho.

Like for example you can only ever have one instance of each synthesis engine in current but with Falcon the sky's the limit.

One other area where Falcon destroys pretty much anything else out there (outside of reaktor or Max etc) is scripting. The arps and sequencers, harmonizers, gates etc. included are as good as if not better than some standalone sequencers and with the addition of midi out these are available to drive any other synth you have.

Like anything complexity comes at a cost of usability but I think UVI are making some inroads with the basic templates at start up.

Also Falcon is much better than current at giving access to your own content like browsing for samples etc. This is really important to me. You can drag and drop in current and that's it.

This aspect is going to be addressed in Current according to minimal but the simplicity of having a browser on the right hand side makes Falcon a breeze to navigate.

Sound wise, I'm baffled that you say current sounds better because in terms of presets there are few if any synths that even come close to the factory bank in Falcon. It's incredible both in its quality and diversity.

I'm not saying current sounds bad. It doesn't, it sounds fantastic but the one area where Falcon really (and UVI in general) shine is their presets/soundware.

Minimal Audio · Post by **Minimal Audio** » Sat Oct 21, 2023 4:14 pm

Thanks for the feedback everyone I will get our systems & policies up to date and matching the other companies in our category. We got an email asking for a full account transfer after this discussion, not an individual license -- we need to make a policy because it can't apply for everything on our website. If you're not using your software an individual piece of software with us, it makes sense to transfer it to someone you know / friend / etc. It doesn't make sense (to me) for us to see resell licenses being listed for sales on marketplace type environments. But again -- if that is normal and the other manufacturers are allowing it. Show me where / how and we will consider if / how we can support it.

We really do want to be competitive, I'm going to get everything cleaned up.

Echoes in the Attic · Post by **Echoes in the Attic** » Sat Oct 21, 2023 4:28 pm

There are quite a few models out there for transfers and it really depends I would say on the size if the company and whether there are often sales etc. I've always thought a small fee makes sense, or allow one transfer and then becomes NFR for example. The a second hand user knows they are paying a discounted price but own it forever. Should not be both a fee and nfr though.

Arturia are free by request. Ni are free but they've automated it.
Ik multimedia used to charge a fee for a transfer but could be multiple products, not sure if that's still the case.

Some companies allow license transfers only after a period of time like 6 Months u-he I think?), which seems reasonable.

We all appreciate free license transfers I'm sure it leads to more impulse buys, where co tinued improvement prevents reselling. I've actually bought and resold thebarturia collection three times and I don't sell licenses much. But I kept changing my.mind whether they were useful/inspiring, but ended up keeping bit in the end.

Putting myself in the shoes of developers I'd probably automate it with a small fee that can be purchased online and you get a transfer credit. But wenall appreciate the Arturia and NI waynof just being free.

plexuss · Post by **plexuss** » Sat Oct 21, 2023 4:41 pm

Just an example of what I consider a good license transfer policy and process is Melda. Fully automated and small fee. No other major restrictions. Embrace license transfers - its good for your business.

jobinho · Post by **jobinho** » Sat Oct 21, 2023 4:44 pm

epiphaneia wrote: Sat Oct 21, 2023 10:41 am
Minimal Audio wrote: Sat Oct 21, 2023 3:59 am We've been focused on building our product catalogue and have obviously been ignoring other aspects of the business.
I reckon you´ve lost quite a few sales for Rift etc because of your "no demo" policy, and that´s -imho- because your policies don´t take into account that hobbyists with limited time and money are a bigger part of the target market than pro studios with technical assistants and for whom buying plugins is tax deductible.

Agree, re lack of demo. I would never buy a plugin without one and am interested in Rift.

Minimal Audio · Post by **Minimal Audio** » Sat Oct 21, 2023 5:02 pm

Thanks everyone -- free demos will be available for all products (no payment details required) as part of the the re-launch.

I have just alerted our support team to do a trial run of allowing single time license transfer on individual software products upon request. We'll give it a shot but are far from being able to automate it at the moment. Please for now while we get a grasp on this only request single licenses at a time. We don't have the systems in place to handle this in bulk currently, but we can go in and jigger the database for single licenses until we have a feel for this.

I like the idea of the single time transfer with no fee. Then the person who supported us directly has the ability to perform the transfer, and the licenses won't just live forever being swapped around. This is probably the direction we would go.

Minimal Audio · Post by **Minimal Audio** » Sat Oct 21, 2023 6:14 pm

Also really would like to thank everyone who is giving us fair advice with the fact we need to run a business in mind. It makes it far easier to figure out how to handle these things when the features are considered from both perspectives. We want you to have a great time using minimal audio products, and will be focusing much more on the entire lifecycle of the customer experience

jbraner · Post by **jbraner** » Sat Oct 21, 2023 7:08 pm

Can I just ask a quick question while Minimal is around?
I thought I saw this mentioned - For perpetual licenses (or RTO?) the effects that come with current won't be available as "stand alone" (ie VST FX that you can use anywhere) effects too - will they?
*That* would be a real game changer

Minimal Audio · Post by **Minimal Audio** » Sat Oct 21, 2023 7:14 pm

RTO unlimited will include all effects as standalone, and we’re continuing to refine the final model.

We want everyone to try the unlimited access ecosystem so perpetual purchases will also have access to it included for a healthy period of time.

Since I’m getting really really good feedback here I would love to post the final pricing options — but we do want to keep some element of surprises for the relaunch : )

jbraner · Post by **jbraner** » Sat Oct 21, 2023 7:15 pm

Minimal Audio wrote: Sat Oct 21, 2023 7:14 pm RTO unlimited will include everything, and we’re continuing to refine the final model, it looks purchasing a perpetual purchase will include a healthy amount of time with unlimited access included, just no credit back since you get the license up front.

But are the FX just in the synth - or available on theiir own as VSTs?

Minimal Audio · Post by **Minimal Audio** » Sat Oct 21, 2023 7:17 pm

Sorry, edited my answer is it clearer now?

jbraner · Post by **jbraner** » Sat Oct 21, 2023 7:21 pm

Thanks - that's a little clearer. Your FX seem really good, so if you buy (or rent) current - it's almost like a "everything bundle" for all your FX.
That sounds like a pretty interesting deal

Minimal Audio · Post by **Minimal Audio** » Sat Oct 21, 2023 7:32 pm

That is basically the plan — it was always the intention but we just got the thing basically v1 operable and put it up too early.

We’re almost done re-architecting everything I’m working 24/7 on it. We keep finding fun ways to improve the offering but it seems we’re almost there. When it’s ready ill be happy to share the final options here — then we’ll need to pull current off the website (the plug-in will still work fine) for a couple of days while we run all the system migrations.

At this point im basically viewing the botched launch as a public focus group on how to price this whole thing out

Minimal Audio Current…subscription