KVR Audio

digitalboytn · Post by **digitalboytn** » Mon Oct 23, 2023 2:59 am

If it had 12 voices of polyphony and a third oscillator it would be even better...

But it's human nature to always want more

As it is,C3 is a little gem

wikter · Post by **wikter** » Mon Oct 23, 2023 6:31 am

Teksonik wrote: Mon Oct 23, 2023 12:06 am Wow, a very deceptively capable synth. Thanks for setting it free!

I banged out a few presets while watching football just getting to know the architecture. I'll try to make some more tomorrow without distractions.

Thank you Teksonik, your patches are always welcome.

Odd Fella wrote: Sun Oct 22, 2023 5:13 pm Well, with pads you used the D for digital, but for basses you use FM. And for basses you use only the F, while for leads you use FM. Those kinds of inconsistencies...

Too rigid. The only RULE I proposed was 4 letters and last ones for description, & then some examples to illustrate.

Odd Fella wrote: Sun Oct 22, 2023 5:13 pm Duplicate check. That is exactly why I think such very specific categories make little sense, often a sound would fit in more than one category. So people will add them to several categories. Like where is the line between an analog pad and a string pad?

People has freedom, and that's unstoppable. We can't even stop users stealing patches or redistributing with different names.

Teksonik · Post by **Teksonik** » Mon Oct 23, 2023 1:03 pm

Ok never mind it seems to be explained in the quick guide:

"For pitch and phase, the modulation targets "Osc Pitch" and "Osc Phase" are shared across all four base oscillators. The "S"-shaped icon next to the controls allows activating modulation for a particular base oscillator".

So no way to modulate the Pitch for Osc1 and 2 separately using different XForm sources ?

But still Xform 1 does not seem to have an effect whereas XForm 3 does for both Pitch and Osc Amp.

Init a patch, drag XForm 3 onto the first number of Osc 1 Ratio, set the amount to 12 semitones. That works to modulate pitch. Doing the same thing for XForm 1 does not work.

This patch shows the issue with Xform 1 and Amp Modulation:

XForm 1 Test.zip

This patch shows Xform 3 working as expected for Osc Amp modulation:

XForm 3 Test.zip

Teksonik · Post by **Teksonik** » Mon Oct 23, 2023 3:40 pm

I updated the patches I posted before. I installed C3 to my studio system this morning and it's much easier to hear things there so I've edited the previous patches and added some more. Up to a dozen so far......

Odd Fella · Post by **Odd Fella** » Mon Oct 23, 2023 4:01 pm

Why is it called "ratio"? Isn't it just the tuning?

cyrb · Post by **cyrb** » Mon Oct 23, 2023 5:25 pm

Wow, definitely not what I expected Charlatan 3 to be! But pleasantly surprised. Reminds me of Surge and ZebraCM (and a dash of Odin 2 in some respects), but boiled to the bare minimum. I'm really not familiar with 'new school' hybrid synths (more of a 80s poly guy), so it's all a bit overwhelming, but it definitely seems capable. It could be a great gentle introduction to hybrid synthesis methinks.

I appreciate the PM/FM stuff, as it's not always a common thing to see, and it can add a lot of grit to complex oscillators. Also like that you can set the individual additive harmonics to really control the timbre in subtle ways, another thing rarely seen in FM synths.

Also, love the low CPU usage! It barely hits 4% per instance.

The immediate concerns I have, in increasing levels of pettiness

:

1. Interface is too big for a 768p display (laptops, chromebooks etc.), stuff at the bottom gets cut off in DAWs like FL Studio. Ideally it should be scalable (bilinear or vector) so both 720p and 4K can be supported. It's not a very dense and massive UI, so it can definitely shine on smaller screens.

2. Some parameters aren't super clear, particularly button toggles. A tooltip, or dedicated text display box at the top would greatly enhance user experience, showing the name of the parameter the mouse is currently hovering over.

3. Ratio decimals are a bit problematic. In an FM synth I understand the value and necessity of ratios, but traditional synths have always had semitones and cents. It's not easy or intuitive to do certain intervals. A mode to switch to semitones/cents would be great, or at the very least a mode that lets you "snap" to proper fractions or pi or whatever, in order to achieve perfect fifths/fourths/thirds without weird approximated decimals.

4. Glide doesn't work in poly mode. I know this is how Charlatan 2 worked as well, but I've gotten used to polyphonic portamento/glide in countless synths (so I know it's possible), and it's often an important touch to certain sounds. Not having it feels like the synth is being held back.

5. Assuming there's only 8 voice polyphony - Add adjustable maximum polyphony and/or alternative voice-stealing modes? Such as voice-retrigger modes that keep track of the exact keys being played, can help against voice stealing, at the cost of already-active notes being cut off when replaying that note (but in my experience, it's often not that noticeable)

6. No VST2 support. This is not a deal breaker at all, but it breaks my heart. I totally understand why developers can only do VST3, as there's some unethical stuff behind the scenes by evil companies who want to obsolete perfectly viable standards, some even revolt and go full CLAP-only so I appreciate not going that far, but VST2 is important to a lot of people, as well as for interoperability and being able to keep your plugins in any folder you want. But a lot of devs still do continue VST2 support, such as Full Bucket Audio. So VST2 support would be very appreciated.

Other than that, it looks and sounds great!

Edit: Was just messing around tweaking with the "LA 2019" preset, and came up with this little ambient tune: https://whyp.it/tracks/132382/silurian-waves
i imagine this is going to be quite an inspiring little synth

It's all just modulating the parameters of C3 itself, nothing external.

Teksonik · Post by **Teksonik** » Mon Oct 23, 2023 5:54 pm

Odd Fella wrote: Mon Oct 23, 2023 4:01 pm Why is it called "ratio"? Isn't it just the tuning?

Most likely for the PM and FM options on the XMOD knob.

chk071 · Post by **chk071** » Mon Oct 23, 2023 6:38 pm

cyrb wrote: Mon Oct 23, 2023 5:25 pm Wow, definitely not what I expected Charlatan 3 to be! But pleasantly surprised. Reminds me of Surge and ZebraCM

ZebraCM was actually the first synth I had to think of when I started up Charlatan 3 for the first time. Pretty similar architecture.

Teksonik · Post by **Teksonik** » Mon Oct 23, 2023 6:50 pm

In case anyone missed it, for the top row Mod 2,3, and 4 we can change them to the following (for Mod 1 it's ADSR and MSEG only). :

Char 102323-4.png

That opens up a lot of possibilities that might not be apparent at first glance.

Odd Fella · Post by **Odd Fella** » Mon Oct 23, 2023 7:12 pm

Teksonik wrote: Mon Oct 23, 2023 6:50 pm In case anyone missed it, for the top row Mod 2,3, and 4 we can change them to the following (for Mod 1 it's ADSR and MSEG only). :

Char 102323-4.png

That opens up a lot of possibilities that might not be apparent at first glance.

I noticed yesterday. It is useful, one can pick whatever one needs for a given patch. If necessary 4 envelopes.

Odd Fella · Post by **Odd Fella** » Mon Oct 23, 2023 7:16 pm

In the phase fields, the font color does not change to black so there is a white font on that light turquoise background. I can't read that.
In the modulation dialog boxes the font color changes to black, which is fine.

Odd Fella · Post by **Odd Fella** » Mon Oct 23, 2023 7:23 pm

In the curve displays of the envelopes there are short lines that appear when the curve is pulled almost to the extreme. See image:

curve display pixels.jpg

Jbravo · Post by **Jbravo** » Tue Oct 24, 2023 2:15 am

Is there a possibility to change the phase of the unison voices? I think they all start exactly in phase every time so you always get that flanging effect with every note which is not an effect I like and restricts it to a very specific digital sound which is not always useful

Odd Fella · Post by **Odd Fella** » Tue Oct 24, 2023 2:26 am

Jbravo wrote: Tue Oct 24, 2023 2:15 am Is there a possibility to change the phase of the unison voices? I think they all start exactly in phase every time so you always get that flanging effect with every note which is not an effect I like and restricts it to a very specific digital sound which is not always useful

Set osc phase to max, i.e. free-running.

The_Anarchivist_00 · Post by **The_Anarchivist_00** » Tue Oct 24, 2023 5:46 am

OY!
VST2 request to the powers that be.
---------------------------------------------
I am running BC Patchwork within Orion DAW, and this is a known functioning solution for me to run VST3's. I just ran the free version of EXC!TE Cymbal VST3 in it. I get sound.

I can load Charlatan VST3 similarly, but I have yet to get sound from it.

Using the CPU-Z utility, I have confirmed my CPU can execute SSE4.2 instructions.

My experience thus far has made me moody

Charlatan³ Free VA synth updated to v3.3.2 (Win/Linux)