A Good Linux Distro For Music Production?

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roman.i wrote: Mon Oct 23, 2023 8:37 amIn practice only areas it works well are education, science, and engineering.
Experience says otherwise.
roman.i wrote: Mon Oct 23, 2023 8:37 am Why companies try to support Linux? Probably because the tools they use became cross-platform and they can compile their software for Linux as well. So why not? It's good for marketing and buzz around their product. No one really believe in this, except few geeks in this thread.
It's been described in this thread, at length, how well Linux can work these days, by people who are actually doing things with it - things that, according to you, shouldn't work well. If you were actually interested in the subject, you would take this into account, and participate in actual friendly and curious dialog about it. Instead, you choose to disregard all that, and just repeat negative blanket statements. You have already said the idea of doing music on Linux is "dumb", and now you are saying this is the sole realm of "a few geeks in this thread", haha.

For one, this geek over here does audio and music for a living :D ... As I said, read my first reply in this thread to get an outline of what I currently use on the Linux side.

The way you approach this tells more about you than it tells about the actual topic.
roman.i wrote: Mon Oct 23, 2023 8:37 amWith Linux you think you're doing the right thing, but in a fact you are not welcome in Linux communities with your paid closed source software.
This statement is problematic in multiple ways. First, it's questionable in itself, and there are indeed plenty of people using commercial tools on Linux. Not once have I heard from a colleague, "I wasn't welcome here and there, because I use [insert commercial toolkit here]", heh. Second, it's subtly implying that it's, in any case, required to be welcomed into OS communities of your chosen operating system, or otherwise the system is doomed into being unsuitable for doing this or that. Of course it's nice to be welcomed; it's just that this idea itself is a bit strange, and the way you are using it is more like a rhetoric throwaway comment, "oh, another thing, it's also bad because... [this thing I thought of that sounds believably negative]."

I've been using Windows audio software for decades, and have never been a part of Windows OS communities.

In other words, instead of the OS itself, I'm more interested in being a part of communities for audio/music professionals, and select communities of the creative tools that I use (these days VCV, for example, and certain game engines, and so on). The OS itself just works well and I happily configure it and use it for running software environments that allow me to produce stuff fluidly and be creative; nowadays, no matter whether I'm on Windows or Linux, this is the case.

Nice constructive discussion is unlikely, given the content and tone of those previous messages, so I'm more like leaving these comments of mine here, again like a counterweight of sorts, so that someone reading this might bump into them and go "okay, so, things can work out these days like this, after all" :) ... Time to get some actual work done, hah.

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Guenon wrote: Mon Oct 23, 2023 9:54 am

I've been using Windows audio software for decades, and have never been a part of Windows OS communities.
That's because the OS is doing the job it was made to do - get out of the way. And of course, on KVR there are hundreds of Windows users, including myself, who communicate.

In contrast, Linux is still very geeky and hard to fathom at times. Last Friday I decided to give MX Linux a go. So I downloaded the iso and used Rufus to install it to a USB stick. Booted into the OS fine. I then downloaded the latest Reaper and tried to install it using the terminal. Gave up after an hour. Downloaded Linux Mint and tried to install Reaper on that OS, but found the whole thing hard to fathom and went back to Windows. I bet this same story is repeated by many people like myself every day.

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One of the problems is, at least with an mint edition, that reaper offers no debian file install. And also no text file how to install it. To me we should address reaper first to change that. To a new linux user it is to complicated, true.
artie fichelle sounds natural

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In an attempt to make distribution a bit more universal, a lot of devs are using flatpak now. If your distro doesn't have it enabled out of the box, enabling that will open up access to a lot more apps. In my Debian system Reaper is available as a flatpak in Gnome Software.

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Artie Fichelle wrote: Mon Oct 23, 2023 11:41 am One of the problems is, at least with an mint edition, that reaper offers no debian file install. And also no text file how to install it. To me we should address reaper first to change that. To a new linux user it is to complicated, true.
- Run without installing:

You can run REAPER directly from the extracted tarball -- simply navigate to
REAPER/ and run "reaper".

By default configuration state will be stored in ~/.config/REAPER. If you want
to keep all configuration with the "reaper" executable, you can create a file
named "reaper.ini" alongside it, which will cause REAPER to use that directory.

- Installation:

If you would like to install REAPER to your system (either globally in /opt,
or in ~/opt) and/or integrate with the desktop environment, you can run the
included "install-reaper.sh" script from the terminal. It will offer you
choices on how to proceed. If you choose to install REAPER, the script will
also generate an uninstall script in order to remove it at a later date.

- Upgrading old versions of REAPER:

You can always install a new version of REAPER over the old version, there is
no need to remove the old version first.

-----

The above is from readme-linux.txt, within the Reaper installation archive you can get directly from their main download page. I've always used that, and it's never been problematic. Reaper, installed to a system which also has the MX toolkit (i.e. any MX-based system), even works straight from a USB boot when installed like this, no additional trickery required.

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@guenon
I did it the same way, and it works, but still for new users an install where they just can click would be easier. I now have pipewire, but have to configure it first, to get the audio system really fast.
artie fichelle sounds natural

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Reaper may work from MX Linux if it is installed to a hard-disk, but it would not work from the USB live version. I tried to "run Reaper", and also tried to cd into the folder to install it but gave up after an hour. I did get Reaper to run in Mint using the live disk, but was not able to install it. You Reaper guys need to understand that just learning how to cd into a folder is not easy for newbies. In Windows, or OSX, anyone can install stuff, no special knowledge needed.

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dellboy wrote: Mon Oct 23, 2023 12:21 pm You Reaper guys need to understand that just learning how to cd into a folder is not easy for newbies. In Windows, or OSX, anyone can install stuff, no special knowledge needed.
I agree. This is also a different matter.

If you want something that is easy to approach, and are not interested in tailoring your working environment before you use it, I would advise against Linux - and in maaaany cases even against Reaper, even though there are people happily using the latter as-is out of the box.

Things that are powerful and work extremely well, capable of working in use cases and circumstances not easily matched by something else, and faster than something else (both in the sense of CPU efficiency and workflow) might, at the same time, require work to learn. These things are not mutually exclusive, and if something requires putting in the work to learn it (if relatively unfamiliar with it beforehand, at least several weeks of intense learning) - it might be super efficient and fast in the long run (years of "it just works" reliability, fast, robust functionality and workflow).

If judging a tool, a working environment, an instrument, a field of study... anything, based on the amount of work you need to put in before getting the unique benefits of said thing, it's easy to emphasize the amount of work and not the benefits. Use what feels the most natural to you, and your interests and tendencies, and keep things in perspective. It's inevitable there are also tools that are just plain bad AND have a steep learning curve :D, but the latter doesn't necessitate the first.

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I would swap to Linux better yesterday than tomorrow but I agree with many points being said here: For an unexperienced user it is not even possible to install a programm on Linux not to speak from getting low latency audio running properly or even knowing what additional programms to use...
As long as Linux doesn´t get more accessable it will stay sadly for me just a black box, unuseable and a pure blindflight...

I hope one day the devs will realize that there is a huge amount of people wanting to get away from the data kraken like Microsoft and Apple but aren´t nerds like them and that things have to be made easier without a huge amount of necessary knowledge beforehand to be able to do even the simplest things...

It´s nice to see that Linux gets more and more advanced technicalwise but from the useability it´s still far before stone age and collecting the necessary information from a million sources how to do this or that (and these information might not work because of using a different version of even the same distro) is cumbersome, nerving and a huge PITA in general.

Sadly....

As I said, I would really like to use it as soon as I can... I even don´t buy (most) things anymore if I cannot be sure that they are working natively or at least via wine and Yabridge on Linux but I simply cannot get it done...

I have no clue what and when to do, useful and useable tutorials are very very rare and mostly didn´t work for what I tried...
This isn´t an OS... this is a desaster...

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Guenon wrote: Mon Oct 23, 2023 12:47 pm
dellboy wrote: Mon Oct 23, 2023 12:21 pm You Reaper guys need to understand that just learning how to cd into a folder is not easy for newbies. In Windows, or OSX, anyone can install stuff, no special knowledge needed.
I agree. This is also a different matter.

If you want something that is easy to approach, and are not interested in tailoring your working environment before you use it, I would advise against Linux - and in maaaany cases even against Reaper, even though there are people happily using the latter as-is out of the box.

Things that are powerful and work extremely well, capable of working in use cases and circumstances not easily matched by something else, and faster than something else (both in the sense of CPU efficiency and workflow) might, at the same time, require work to learn. These things are not mutually exclusive, and if something requires putting in the work to learn it (if relatively unfamiliar with it beforehand, at least several weeks of intense learning) - it might be super efficient and fast in the long run (years of "it just works" reliability, fast, robust functionality and workflow).

If judging a tool, a working environment, an instrument, a field of study... anything, based on the amount of work you need to put in before getting the unique benefits of said thing, it's easy to emphasize the amount of work and not the benefits. Use what feels the most natural to you, and your interests and tendencies, and keep things in perspective. It's inevitable there are also tools that are just plain bad AND have a steep learning curve :D, but the latter doesn't necessitate the first.
I was running Red Hat Linux on a computer in the 1990s. I still have a CD disk from 2006 with all the earliest versions of Reaper on it. I still have a Reaper 2 licence.

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Interesting thread, starting to sound more like a people problem more than what OS works IMHO.
I'm guessing you all were born with the knowledge to run Win\Mac right from the womb. Never had to learn anything because you had it all embedded into your brain at birth.

Does Linux have a learning curve! Yep. So did Win\Mac when you were most likely very young. Me I'm just an old lowly bass player (and from some comments a geek). I guess I must have been able to play at birth because no one would actually take time to learn anything, Right?

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It's an impossible ask to standardise linux. It isn't an OS. It's a collection of technologies. Every part of it can be swapped out by the user. That's why you have a zillion distros. They're just opinionated setups.

The switch can be done. I'm three months into running linux full-time. The first month was full of research trying to figure out how to get things done. It wasn't easy but the will was there to make it work.

From my own experience, I'd suggest getting a popular distro like Mint, Manjaro or Pop! OS first. See what a fully kitted-out linux environment can look like. Then you can decide what parts you like and dislike. Expect a bit of distro hopping until you're comfortable enough to roll your own system. It's a constant learning experience but it's been worth it for me.

Something that can help with apps that don't have their own installers is app shortcuts. These work like the start menu/desktop shortcuts in Windows. Pretty much all distros will come with some app to download and install various apps. Search in that for "shortcut" and you should find an app or two that will allow you to create app shortcuts. These are just simple text files, but when starting out it's no harm to get this done with a nice GUI app. VCV Rack, for example, is just a zip file so I created a shortcut to be able to launch it from my desktop.

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dellboy wrote: Mon Oct 23, 2023 1:23 pm I was running Red Hat Linux on a computer in the 1990s. I still have a CD disk from 2006 with all the earliest versions of Reaper on it. I still have a Reaper 2 licence.
Cool 8) ... Really, that's cool. I was an outlier and ran OS/2 for a good stint back then on a personal system, as a teenager, lol! At the turn of the century, I even ran BeOS like that for a while. Weird times. But the first time I got into Linux, on any system, was no earlier than 2005 with Debian Sarge. Main audio/music work remained on Windows for way over a decade after that, 2005 that landscape on Linux was waaay sparser in that regard than it is nowadays. Very, very different. Now, using Windows and Linux interchangeably, and enjoying the niceties I described earlier in this thread.

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FrettedSynth wrote: Mon Oct 23, 2023 1:26 pm Interesting thread, starting to sound more like a people problem more than what OS works IMHO.
Nope, its an OS thing.

Ask yourself why on Windows and OSX Reaper has a double click install, but in Linux you have to resort to a terminal? Why is it that VSTs on Windows and OSX its a double click install, but in Linux you have to set up something like Yabridge using a terminal before you can even start? Its a Linux OS thing.

Three years ago I saw a great deal on an Apple Mac Mini. Purchased it, installed everything, and was making music in under an hour? I had never owned an Apple computer before that. Its an OS thing. Linux has come a long way, but there is still some way to go.

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dellboy wrote: Mon Oct 23, 2023 2:30 pm Three years ago I saw a great deal on an Apple Mac Mini. Purchased it, installed everything, and was making music in under an hour? I had never owned an Apple computer before that. Its an OS thing. Linux has come a long way, but there is still some way to go.
I'd describe it as, the convenience being at different ends of the whole spectrum. Something is very convenient to grab and use, and get to grips with, just like that. Something else has convenience in aspects that aren't possible somewhere else, but you get there by accepting that it takes more work at first. It's nice to have that choice, and both kinds of systems have some way to go, in the respective direction that is outside of their comfort zone. I like using both kinds.

When I get a new computer, I'm making music on it in under two minutes. With all my tools set up and ready to go. If the internal system SSD of a workstation dies, and I decide to pull it completely, I can still keep working in under a minute, without that system drive.

This convenience doesn't extend only to audio/music software, either; I have my whole toolkit at my fingertips from the get go, set up for work. For example this type of convenience of portability and installability is not a Windows thing, and it's not a Mac thing. And it is convenience, just a different sort.

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