Berhinger RD 9 or Roland TR8S ?

[Trancer]

I would like to buy a dedicated drum machine for Trance/Trance Uplifting.

I'm hesitating between the RD 9 and the TR8S.

If you have any other suggestions, please don't hesitate to let me know.

The Berhinger seems to have a lot more punch, its fatter, fuller than the TR8S.

Two things that make me hesitate compared to the Berhinger RD 9, a mono output.

I currently have a Studiolive 32sx, if I connect it in mono, how can I output the sound in stereo to my speakers?

If I connect it in mono to an Rme Fireface 802 FS interface, how can I obtain stereo sound on my speakers?

The second point, the reliability, duration and quality of the RD 9 over time?

Thank you in advance for your answer.

[egbert101]

I have the TR8S, it is of course a digital emulation and not real analogue. But it is the current best digital emulation of the various Roland drum machines. As for the RD 9, it is analogue but it is also a recreation rather than the real thing, although I've heard that it's very close to the original. Also, as far as I'm aware, the RD 9 and the original 909 actually uses samples for the various cymbals/hats.
The TR8S can do way more things, such as playback your own samples, has digital effects, and so on. But I never did like the Roland workflow so I hardly use it. I plan on sampling it and using the various drums that way.
If your focus is only on 909 sounds, then probably the RD 9 is for you. But if you want access to all the classics: 606, 707, 808, 909 and various other sounds, then TR8S is probably the best choice.

[Uncle E]

I currently have a Studiolive 32sx, if I connect it in mono, how can I output the sound in stereo to my speakers?

RD 9 has individual outputs for each drum. You'll need to run each into separate inputs of your StudioLive. A big benefit of this is you'll be able to process the drums individually.

With that said, TR8S all the way. It's excellent.

[cryophonik]

I would like to buy a dedicated drum machine for Trance/Trance Uplifting.

I'm hesitating between the RD 9 and the TR8S.

If you have any other suggestions, please don't hesitate to let me know.

Short answer is neither one. Trance/uplifting is primarily made with samples. The RD-9 is a TR-909 emulation and sounds pretty much exactly like a 909, so it's very limited. The TR-8S is a much more versatile machine that does play your samples and has great 909, 808, 606, and many other modeled drum sounds, but read on...

he Berhinger seems to have a lot more punch, its fatter, fuller than the TR8S.

Definitely, but again, the RD-9's range is very limited and will not give you a very diverse range of sounds.

Two things that make me hesitate compared to the Berhinger RD 9, a mono output.

I currently have a Studiolive 32sx, if I connect it in mono, how can I output the sound in stereo to my speakers?

If I connect it in mono to an Rme Fireface 802 FS interface, how can I obtain stereo sound on my speakers?

Honestly, the TR-8S isn't much better in this regard. For trance, you'll want to be able to track and edit drum sounds individually, so whether it's stereo (TR-8S) or mono (RD-9), you'll want to use the individual outputs of either drum machine to edit and process them separately.

The second point, the reliability, duration and quality of the RD 9 over time?

Between the two, I'd be more concerned about the reliability of the TR-8S. These new Roland offerings feel like cheap flimsy plastic toys. That said, for normal studio use, I wouldn't be concerned about either one. That's primarily a concern if you're taking them on the road for live use. For normal studio use, either one should last a long time.

One thing to consider for trance is that you'll want to automate sections for drum builds and transitions, which is a very important aspect of uplifting trance, and you'll want to arrange them into song sections. You have almost no ability to do that effectively with the TR-8S, because it has no song mode and very limited pattern chaining. The RD-9 is maybe slightly better, but you'll still be disappointed.

For trance, the hardware drum machine I'd recommend (and use) is the Elektron RYTM mk2. It's got an excellent sequencer, analog and sample-based drums, you can load it up with your own samples, it has both individual analog and digital (i.e., via Overbridge) outputs, song mode, etc. Load it up with Samples from Mars libraries and some decent trance samples, and you're good to go.

[egbert101]

I have an Analogue Four, and to be honest it can do a hell of a lot of things, including some nice drum sounds, and you can bypass the horrible workflow by using Overbridge too.

[sin night]

I have a TR-8S, but I’m into house/techno. Nice for jamming, but the lack of a song mode is definitely a minus. It’s not a problem when making music with a daw (I can record one instrument at time, so I can “perform live” on the TR-8S), but I can’t do much if I’m jamming with other synths synced to it (I either work on the TR-8S or on the other devices… I have only two hands). The same holds true for other drum machines without song mode, of course. Most of the time, when jamming, I end up just changing patterns, using mutes or working the filter (which I usually choose as a master fx), if I want to keep the other hand on something else.

As far as automation, I thing the TR-8S provides a sort of internal LFO, but I never used it so far (my usage of the TR-8S is pretty basic)… you can also do something from the daw via midi, but I never tried (and I think there are limitations).

An analog drum machine, like the RD-9, wouldn’t be my choice for trance (modern trance, at least), I know very little about this style, but I think the drums are quite processed, so something sample-based is probably more effective.
Analog drum machines require processing (also for house and techno). It’s not a rule, but they need it most of the time. My Drumbrute was a gateway for a lot of pedals (I already had some, but that made me buy more)… and the sound was still far from a finished polished record. Good as a starting point for sound design, good for more “underground” music calling for a more “naked” sound (or with some processing through pedals); but I wouldn’t use an analog drum machine for any style requiring more processed/“produced”/polished drum sounds.

I would probably look at the Elektron offering. If you can afford it, I would look at the Analog Rhythm (I never tried it, though!); otherwise also a Digitakt could do a nice job (but it plays only mono samples… it may be a limitation if you want to load some “produced” sounds, like some claps or snares… by the way, I don’t remember the sample import limitations of the TR-8S, it’s worth checking them!), although I think it’s more expensive than a TR-8S at the moment.

The TR-8S offers some internal processing, then each output can be set to “normal” or “loud” level (which engages some kind of maximizer, I think)… on the Digitakt, you can overdrive and filter each sound…


I’m not into dawless jams (whenever I jam, it’s to come up with new ideas, then I turn on the daw and start working with the mouse…), so my requirements for drum machines are probably looser (as long as they sound good / can be processed effectively), so keep that in mind.

[Trancer]

Many thanks for your responses and opinions.

The Roland TR 909 is clearly one of the centerpieces of electronic music, and of Roland products in general.

I would like a fairly easy-to-use machine that uses Roland and similar sounds and can evolve into other sounds that are a little less typical than Roland sounds.

It's true that a good majority of production is done with samples in a daw, certainly easier to set up and modify.

Indeed I will be able to use the separate outputs and connect them to the Studiolive, but I plan to take an Rme Fireface 802 FS at some point, so I must take a machine which will be able to adapt with fewer inputs than that of the Studiolive.

The TR8S has a good reputation and is very popular.

A certain advantage if you use a computer, you can recover the outputs of the TR8S via USB in a DAW (Live Suite 11), however unless I am mistaken it is not possible to do this with the RD 9.

My use will only be in home studio.

I had an Analog Rythm MK2, a very powerful and truly exceptional machine.

On the other hand, the workflow is really not very intuitive, for me at least.

Too much manipulation to achieve a result.

But once again my experience with Elektron apart from the Workflow has really been magical.

I quite agree with you, the Analog Rythm MK2 remains a very good cross, but the workflow...

The Analog Four MK2 is also an exceptional machine but the same, a workflow not really suited to my way of composing.

I try to avoid using a computer as much as possible, which is why I have a Studiolive 32sx.

But I will certainly use a dedicated audio interface later, but not for the moment.

Now if I took the time why not, but for the moment I prefer to move forward and compose than to engage in manipulation to make music.

I prefer a simple machine or at least easier to use than an Elektron.

Thanks for sharing the video.

[cryophonik]

.
A certain advantage if you use a computer, you can recover the outputs of the TR8S via USB in a DAW (Live Suite 11), however unless I am mistaken it is not possible to do this with the RD 9.

That’s correct. There is no audio over USB on the RD-9.

Also, as egbert101 already mentioned, there are no reverb, delay, modulation, etc. effects on the RD-9, so that limits it even further in a DAW-less setup. For trance fills, you’ll usually want to layer some of these effects on thick, so you’d need to use external effects on the outputs, especially the clap and snare, or do that in DAW.

[Trancer]

Thank you very much for your response sin night.

Aware that the Elektron offer is certainly the best.

But it's really the workflow that poses a problem for me.

There is the Syntakt which according to some users seems simpler, more immediate than the Rythm MK2 and Four MK2.

My use is totally dawless, so I am certainly more limited in my machine choices.

For hardware effects, I have a BigSky, TimeLine and an Oto Boum.

The TR8S is widely used.

Perhaps purely a personal feeling, but I find that the TR8S lacks punch and presence.

On this point, an Elektron is really something else.

Now, the sampling part is not at all an obligation or priority for me.

I'm looking for a machine that meets my musical needs and has reasonable handling.

[Trancer]

Indeed, as a dawless user, I have to use external effects.

I must admit that even if I really like the autonomous side, the processing side for example and implementation is much simpler with a daw.

The why at some point at least for certain things I will most certainly go through a daw, it will be simpler.

[Uncle E]

Why not just use the StudioLive as your interface? It seems to be excellent for that, along with the integration with Studio One. That's a setup I've been wanting to try for myself for a long time.

btw, for those that aren't familiar with it, the StudioLive 32SX has EQ's and compression on every channel, plus 4 separate multi-effect busses.

I would like a fairly easy-to-use machine that uses Roland and similar sounds and can evolve into other sounds that are a little less typical than Roland sounds.

Am I remembering correctly that you use an Akai Force? Why not use that for drums? The MPC is the ultimate easy-to-use drum machine and I've heard people say that the Force is similar in this regard. Maschine+ would probably be an even better fit since it lets you manipulate the sounds more. Any of these would be easier to use than the RD-9, TR-8S, or Elektron.

[Trancer]

Thank you for your reply.

Absolutely, Studiolive allows you to do that.

It is very powerful and for dawless use it is truly an excellent choice.

I bought it only for that, by the way, dawless.

That would be an excellent choice.

Originally when I used a computer I was on Live 11 Suite and I had started using Studio One Pro 5.

Very clearly and fortunately, the perfect duo.

Concerning the effects since Dawless, I use external effects.

Concerning compression and equalization I had planned to invest in hardware, but I will use it as you rightly point out that there is what is needed for that in the Studiolive 32sx.

Yes, I have an Akai Force, a really perfect machine for lunch management.

Besides, I use it for lunch for my Virus Ti2 keyboard and the Blofeld Desktop.

As a kind of Live, I also use clips.

I could use the Force for the rhythm part, but I prefer a truly dedicated and autonomous machine for this use.

I hadn't thought about Maschine +, but a new workflow to learn and it doesn't have a very good reputation and is apparently quite limited (processor, memories).

Unless I'm mistaken, in addition there's not much new compared to an update development, I would even say, abandonment of the product.

It is very important for me to have product monitoring.

Unfortunately NI is only good at making sound banks now and that's a shame.

[Uncle E]

Yes, very good point. Maschine+ is probably abandoned.

MPC has good sample manipulation but not as hands-on as the Maschine+ and TR-8S. The most recent update added a new filter and many effects, and it has a great touch screen like your Force.

Anyway, FTW:

[perpetual3]

I have both. If you want the 909, get the RD9. The kick is much better. It’s also built very well, almost too well. Stiff knobs, stiff pads. Sequencer is pretty good. Nice and thick sound out of the box. Transient designer and filter pretty good too.

The 8s has waaaaay more options. What is rarely mentioned is the excellent and musical FM models that were added in 2.5. While there models dedicated for each instrument, there is also a general perc model which allows you to create a chromatically tunable drum or percussion sound of anything you want. Quite a capable sequence only lacking micro timings and nudge. Only one lfo but very good motion sequencing. Once you get the hang of the shift button and workflow shortcuts, programming is actually quite fluid but the editor makes it very easy. Effects are very good in my opinion with exception of delay. Comprehensive saturate block with EQ for tone shaping. Good delays. Reverb is ok - I use the SP2016 as my standard. I love mixing into the 404 master compressor, but since I want to use the lp/hp filter, I run the 8s into an SP404mk2.

One thing I like to do is run the RD9 via the stereo headphone out into the input of the 8s

8s also make a great 11 fader and 44 knob (?) midi controller which you can use simultaneously with the on board sounds if you wish. Faders and knobs are great.

Think of it as collection of good drum machines, FM percussion synthesizer, sample playback, external effect unit, and MIDI controller all in one.

[Uncle E]

8s also make a great 11 fader and 44 knob (?) midi controller which you can use simultaneously with the on board sounds if you wish. Faders and knobs are great.

Giving me GAS big time.