FabFilter Pro-R 2 -> Released Thursday November 2, 2023

[bmanic]

Decay-EQ , thats all CC mappable btw.

Indeed, and pretty much ALL the controls are butter smooth when automating them. There should be no sudden pops and clicks (except perhaps if you rapidly change filter shapes). You can hear it in the intro video, in the final break before the piano comes in.. everything you are hearing, the woosh, the buildup etc is all Pro-R2 automation, nothing else.

[jamcat]

My point was simply this: Easier said than done.

But my point was not that it is a bad thing that we do this - we help keeing the industry - and hence innovation - alive after all.

And for this very reason I like companies who have prices that kind of ignore the oversaturation of the market and act like there was only a handful of plugin vendors to support not so very much. (Yes, looking at you, Fabfilter).

Totally agree with you.. but I can't judge the ones that are disrupting this (and possibly destroying this innovation, bringing the lowest denominator to the fore front) because I too am guilty of enjoying the super low prices.

It makes a lot more sense to generate high sales at a low price rather than low sales at a high price, when you’re selling an unlimited resource like software.

[Jac459]

My point was simply this: Easier said than done.

But my point was not that it is a bad thing that we do this - we help keeing the industry - and hence innovation - alive after all.

And for this very reason I like companies who have prices that kind of ignore the oversaturation of the market and act like there was only a handful of plugin vendors to support not so very much. (Yes, looking at you, Fabfilter).

Totally agree with you.. but I can't judge the ones that are disrupting this (and possibly destroying this innovation, bringing the lowest denominator to the fore front) because I too am guilty of enjoying the super low prices.

Fully agree....
After, some developers are so good that they can have more expansive products.... The value is there.
For example Bitwig is arguably an expensive DAW and you get only one year of update. But there is no chance I will even look at another DAW because for my own workflow it is so damn perfect.

Fabfilter is also an excellent developer. To me, they aren't that customer friendly but why would they? Their products are so good.

I could also name U-He... Expansive and paid updates but very cool products...

Yet at the end of the day, my personal choice is that it I have to choose where to put my money I will favor an UVI, Kilohearts or Arturia because of their customer centric approach.

[bmanic]

My point was simply this: Easier said than done.

But my point was not that it is a bad thing that we do this - we help keeing the industry - and hence innovation - alive after all.

And for this very reason I like companies who have prices that kind of ignore the oversaturation of the market and act like there was only a handful of plugin vendors to support not so very much. (Yes, looking at you, Fabfilter).

Totally agree with you.. but I can't judge the ones that are disrupting this (and possibly destroying this innovation, bringing the lowest denominator to the fore front) because I too am guilty of enjoying the super low prices.

It makes a lot more sense to generate high sales at a low price rather than low sales at a high price, when you’re selling an unlimited resource like software.

In a way yes.. but if you consider support as an expense then this is not always the optimal calculation. For large companies that outsource the support this works just fine but if you are an indie developer it becomes impossible to cater to extremely large userbases. It's the classic pitfall of small companies to have a too large user base.

[jens]

It makes a lot more sense to generate high sales at a low price rather than low sales at a high price, when you’re selling an unlimited resource like software.

Yes, exactly - I don't feel bad at all when I shell out 30bucks for something I don't actually have any need for...

[jens]

In a way yes.. but if you consider support as an expense then this is not always the optimal calculation. For large companies that outsource the support this works just fine but if you are an indie developer it becomes impossible to cater to extremely large userbases. It's the classic pitfall of small companies to have a too large user base.

And yet it seems to work just fine for many...

[jens]

For example Bitwig is arguably an expensive DAW and you get only one year of update. But there is no chance I will even look at another DAW because for my own workflow it is so damn perfect.

I have the full V5 but I have yet to make any use of it - so you say it's good?

[jamcat]

Low price/high volume is also a better business model because:

a) More users = better brand recognition = more customers

b) Customers who have bought one of your products are far more likely to buy your other products

[jamcat]

My point was simply this: Easier said than done.

But my point was not that it is a bad thing that we do this - we help keeing the industry - and hence innovation - alive after all.

And for this very reason I like companies who have prices that kind of ignore the oversaturation of the market and act like there was only a handful of plugin vendors to support not so very much. (Yes, looking at you, Fabfilter).

Totally agree with you.. but I can't judge the ones that are disrupting this (and possibly destroying this innovation, bringing the lowest denominator to the fore front) because I too am guilty of enjoying the super low prices.

It makes a lot more sense to generate high sales at a low price rather than low sales at a high price, when you’re selling an unlimited resource like software.

In a way yes.. but if you consider support as an expense then this is not always the optimal calculation. For large companies that outsource the support this works just fine but if you are an indie developer it becomes impossible to cater to extremely large userbases. It's the classic pitfall of small companies to have a too large user base.

The solution is to just offer poor support. It works for Plugin Alliance!

[jens]

[Jac459]

I have the full V5 but I have yet to make any use of it - so you say it's good?

Oh man ! You break my heart... Bitwig is the best piece of software that ever existed. Some alien species planned to invade us and renounced when they saw the marvel we humans are able to create, it also cure some rare diseases before even we get them. But more importantly, it is a modulations heaven... And what would be life without modulations ?
(I am just kidding, "to each their own" as they say)
(but seriously, have you tried to play with Polymer, the grid ?)

[Funkybot's Evil Twin]

Low price/high volume is also a better business model because:

a) More users = better brand recognition = more customers

b) Customers who have bought one of your products are far more likely to buy your other products

Business can expand too fast though and it can, at times, be to their detriment. Example: you dramatically lower prices, and next thing you know your company is drowing in support requests. Then all of a sudden now you need to hire and expand, and that's not always good. Particularly in the plugin business where you'll get a ton of support emails and sales right after a new product launch or major update, then things die down until the next big sale. So now you've got people relying on you to feed their families. More customers is not always more gooder.

[PieBerger]

I could also name U-He... Expansive and paid updates but very cool products...

Lot's of excellent, high quality updates are included for free though, for example, wavetable engine and a few other features added to Hive 1.2 for free, complete overhaul of the UI and tonnes of features added to both MFM and Filterscape, totally free for existing users and when Uhbik2 finally drops, that will be free for existing users too. Plus their paid updates are very reasonable, 20e from v1 to v2, 30e from v2 to v3. If you paid 199e for Zebra2 15 year ago, you receive every update in that period for free and get to upgrade to what will basically be an entirely new synth, rewritten from scratch for just 30e. I bought Zebra2 and HZ for 150e combined (50% off NI sale both times) and I get to uprade to Z3 for free. Yes they are little more expensive upfront, but long term u-he products are very good value.

[Jac459]

I could also name U-He... Expansive and paid updates but very cool products...

Lot's of excellent, high quality updates are included for free though, for example, wavetable engine and a few other features added to Hive 1.2 for free, complete overhaul of the UI and tonnes of features added to both MFM and Filterscape, totally free for existing users and when Uhbik2 finally drops, that will be free for existing users too. Plus their paid updates are very reasonable, 20e from v1 to v2, 30e from v2 to v3. If you paid 199e for Zebra2 15 year ago, you receive every update in that period for free and get to upgrade to what will basically be an entirely new synth, rewritten from scratch for just 30e. I bought Zebra2 and HZ for 150e combined (50% off NI sale both times) and I get to uprade to Z3 for free. Yes they are little more expensive upfront, but long term u-he products are very good value.

Yes you are right actually... That's also why they are so appreciated there...
So should the conclusion be that among the top developers Fabfilter is the one offering the less updates for free ?
Bmanic was sharing that FF is preparing an update of Twin 3... Maybe this update will prove me wrong... We'll see.

[Funky40]

My point was simply this: Easier said than done.

But my point was not that it is a bad thing that we do this - we help keeing the industry - and hence innovation - alive after all.

And for this very reason I like companies who have prices that kind of ignore the oversaturation of the market and act like there was only a handful of plugin vendors to support not so very much. (Yes, looking at you, Fabfilter).

Totally agree with you.. but I can't judge the ones that are disrupting this (and possibly destroying this innovation, bringing the lowest denominator to the fore front) because I too am guilty of enjoying the super low prices.

It makes a lot more sense to generate high sales at a low price rather than low sales at a high price, when you’re selling an unlimited resource like software.

i´d like to add: the market running "like this", creates in the whole also a higher cash flow running into this market ! This IS a point for sure. If it was other, i had spent WAY less money on Plugins.
Who else ? ....hands up

for me it was a good thing. it´s totally part of how i deal with software, ... to waste so and so much money on stupid buys. Often these buys even help me to see given strengts of other plugins better.
And helps me to understand what exactly "I" need.

All this, won´t happen the same way in a market with the prices high.