Should we ditch VST/AAX instruments altogether?

[BBFG#]

[jancivil]

obstacle:


Obstacle:

All this says to me is you're not much of a problem-solver, because those were really lame excuses.

How many brushes Picasso needed?

You're pretending to make a rhetorical question, but in reality probably a great number of different brushes and other implements, given his rather wide use of materials to paint on, or sculpt with. Let alone that THEY WEAR OUT. Not much of an analogy and by now we see you really reaching.

How many tennis racquets Rafael Nadal uses in a game?

I've done more than one piece of music, music that is in no way like tennis... FAIL.

Pink Floyd didn't use 600 GB of sounds to create The Dark Side Of The Moon, why should we?

another feint at a rhetorical question. I have access to sounds and instruments they didn't in 1972 or whatever, that alone would inform why one might do things they didn't. Also I'm interested in things musical rather beyond this particular object from way back when.
Also it's ironic to bring in a group that by this time was so dependent on really quite a lot of gear.

I think it's time to admit it that some of us became sound collectors instead of music creators.
I know that in some way, I did.

So project away. Yeah, a great number of people that've joined KVR and talk about products incessantly would tend to be oriented that certain way. So? It ain't me.

[k2006]

what you are saying is something common to all arts and design,innovations happened after the arrival of machines, -abstract art(cubism,constructivism etc),architecture(heroic period of architecture),later developments "capitalised" on that and made the aesthetics more "consumable". probably next major change will happen once ai takes over.it is upto the individual how he fits in( or opts out) in this situation.

[AdvancedFollower]

When recording with midi, you are going to sacrifice some humanity in your performance, and any attached "fixes" are still mechanical in their nature and won't be 100% identical to your natural, instantaneous performance.

IMO when working in a DAW your goal usually isn't to capture the performance as it was performed, so I don't understand this obsession. Even producers of acoustic music without any hardware or plugin synths perform a lot of editing, both in the time domain (aligning transients etc.) and in terms of dynamics and frequency content (compressors, EQ, de-essers etc.) as well as effects like delays and reverb. Something simple like adding a compressor to a guitar part changes the part compared to how it was originally performed by altering the dynamics in various ways. It's also very common to record multiple takes and combine the best parts of each into one "performance".

[Bippo]

So many comments, so many trolls (not by everyone of course, but a grand amount)...I won't be able to respond one by one so I'll try my best with one general response.

First of all, I was born in the early 90's.
I'm not a so called "boomer" as some hinted, and even if I was it doesn't really matter.
I have no problem at all, to admit that my generation and onward, is lesser than those who came before us in terms of songwriting.

Yes, contemporary production is the best that has ever been, I never said the contrary.
I also never said "hey let's go back to medieval times/let's write music like Bach and ditch our DAW because we can handwrite sheet music so recording is pointless" but I get it that my post struck a nerve with some of you, so trying to "downgrade" and throw some cynical jokes are common ways to manage internal and external stressful situations.
Be my guest, it's actually quite fun to read, I was expecting this type of comments but not so many

Anyway, yes, production is way better than in the past, never said the contrary.
But as I said, as someone who was born in the early 90's, I just KNOW, that songwriting was WAY better before my time (and my generation time).

The 60's through 90's were the heyday of popular music.
Especially 60's through 80's.
What I mean by that, is that all this arguments that I simply "miss my childhood" are way off, because this music came out even before I was created, so your argument is invalid

Now, is the declining in songwriting is due to the incline of tech and production?
That's my assumption.
Should we ditch recording and print sheet music instead?
I don't think so.

What I do think, is that the one big major difference between the "inferior" era of songwriting between the "superior" era, is the gigantic, rapid advancement in technology that "killed" some of the curiosity that was present in past times, and it may lead to an overall declining level of songwriting.


I think that songwriting in popular music has became more focused on the instrumental beat and production, less about the song itself.

In my opinion, a good song can work with just vocal + piano/guitar.
There's so much music out there that would fail this test big time, because as I said, its more production focused than songwriting focused.

So yeah, most of the music that I like came way before I was born.
All those Dark Side Of The Moon, Thriller, The Joshua Tree, Revolver etc...there's nothing in modern music that come even close to those albums.
Nothing.

Take a look at "The Sound Of Silence", this song was written 60 years ago.
Strawberry Fields is 50+ years old.
Bohemian Rhapsody was written almost 50 years ago.
Every Breath You Take was written 40 years ago.

I don't think that there are many songs post 2000 that will be remembered 50 years from today, with such high praise.

Maybe its time to take a more minimal approach with music, and by that I don't mean to record with analog tapes or just print sheet music instead of recording.
Maybe its time to focus more on the core of the song which has always been lyrics and melody.
We don't need 1TB of sounds to create music, that's all I'm saying.

Of course that's just my opinion

Feel free to post more jokes by the way, I really liked some of them.

[revvy]

Q: what do you call somebody who posts an anti-plugins speech on a plugins forum
A:?

[Bippo]

Q: what do you call somebody who posts an anti-plugins speech on a plugins forum
A: This is not an anti-plugins speech. It's more of a call to try to assess if the quantity of tools hurt the quality of product. Sometimes less is more.

[vurt]

i was told by a music teacher when at school, no one would remember iron maiden or metallica in ten years

we never know which songs will resonate down the line.

popular music, became more of a commodity than the previous decades, so the labels churn it out, rather than focusing on quality.

however, outside of the mainstream, there are and always will be people, who do focus on songwriting. i see a lot of performers locally, using nothing more than an acoustic guitar and vocals, writing some good tracks.
not all of them are interested in recording (ive offered free studio time) they just enjoy the process of writing and performing at local open mics.
maybe you have similar near you?

[rod_zero]

I don't suscribe to the assessment that music is in some way worse than in the past, it is an argument as old as recorded music has existed and probably even older.

Music is always evolving in lots of directions, in lots of genres, it is simply impossible to listen to all the avant garde stuff in any genre because there is simply touch stuff being released each day. I am amazed when I just let Spotify algorithm run after my playlists at the music it recommends me, lots of great stuff that I would never have come across before.

There is a lot of generic and repetitive stuff? Of course, but that has always been the case, now there is more music overall but I would say the ratio of good music vs generic music is the same as before, just biggest absolute numbers.

Now, one thing that has changed a lot is the mainstream music and it's marketing. We all know the industry went through a big transformation as records sales disappeared, the structure of the economic model for traditional labels have all but disappeared. Now artist sign 360 contracts because what is valuable for the label is the image of the artist.

Currently in the mainstream, let's say billboard top 20 is heavily dominated by single artists that can sell a lifestyle, they are basically brands as Swift or Bad Bunny. But that is just the tip of the iceberg, the rest of the world of music doesn't work like that and there is a shit loft of music to be discovered.

[Bippo]

What lifestyle Swift is selling? or Ed Sheeran/Adele for that matter?

[jdoo]

Mentioned more than once by OP.. Strawberry Fields. Really? Prominently featuring Mellotron. Beatles pushed it in directions that (even at at that point) were creative and new. They had access and means for traditional orchestral players and instruments, yet.. this masterpiece was a breakout for usage of a budding synth market and direction. Thank goodness George Martin embraced that use in the production, and didnt push back "declining in songwriting is due to the incline of tech and production"?? OP.. consider all forms of instrument ( simple and complex) have been used to create the masterpieces. Anyway - interesting ideas.

[whyterabbyt]

Q: what do you call somebody who posts an anti-plugins speech on a plugins forum
A: This is not an anti-plugins speech. It's more of a call to try to assess if the quantity of tools hurt the quality of product. Sometimes less is more.

It doesnt. Now you know.

[zerocrossing]

I don't suscribe to the assessment that music is in some way worse than in the past, it is an argument as old as recorded music has existed and probably even older.

Music is always evolving in lots of directions, in lots of genres, it is simply impossible to listen to all the avant garde stuff in any genre because there is simply touch stuff being released each day. I am amazed when I just let Spotify algorithm run after my playlists at the music it recommends me, lots of great stuff that I would never have come across before.

There is a lot of generic and repetitive stuff? Of course, but that has always been the case, now there is more music overall but I would say the ratio of good music vs generic music is the same as before, just biggest absolute numbers.

Now, one thing that has changed a lot is the mainstream music and it's marketing. We all know the industry went through a big transformation as records sales disappeared, the structure of the economic model for traditional labels have all but disappeared. Now artist sign 360 contracts because what is valuable for the label is the image of the artist.

Currently in the mainstream, let's say billboard top 20 is heavily dominated by single artists that can sell a lifestyle, they are basically brands as Swift or Bad Bunny. But that is just the tip of the iceberg, the rest of the world of music doesn't work like that and there is a shit loft of music to be discovered.

Yeah, my daughter loves Taylor Swift, but she’s 10, and from listening to Taylor’s music, that seems to be about the level. Not that it’s bad in any way, there are a few catchy pop tunes, but most of it is generic like Wonderbread. I’m not sure if there’s any “lifestyle” being sold, but she’s definitely packaged up in a plastic bag and ready to buy. I’d put her in the “mostly harmless” category, and ultimately I’m happy that my daughter loves music in general.

I’m finding modern music in different places than ever before, now that the world of radio has collapsed. TV and movies. I just discovered an artist named Lianne La Havas because I heard her track on a show. She’s not really very edgy or underground, but if you like R&B that’s got a heart and a brain, check her out. She’s been around for a while, which makes me sad. Why isn’t someone putting this in front of my daughter? So, you have to dig. But other artists are getting good marketing. Last night, while looking for a song to learn on ukulele, my daughter asked for What Was I Made For, by Billie Eilish, which is a brilliant song featured in the Barbie movie, and despite it’s bitter sweet sound, is very counter culture and packs a great message. All of her music is as good as any pop music I’ve ever heard, from any time period.

So… you do have to dig a bit, there’s no doubt about that. Gone are the days when you’ll find a Bohemian Rhapsody on the radio (unless it is Bohemian Rhapsody).

[zerocrossing]

Q: what do you call somebody who posts an anti-plugins speech on a plugins forum
A: This is not an anti-plugins speech. It's more of a call to try to assess if the quantity of tools hurt the quality of product. Sometimes less is more.

It doesnt. Now you know.

Even if it did, who would be the plugin police that limits what can be developed?

[vurt]

regards radio, if you listen to a classic rock or pop station, you may notice, its the same songs on repeat, while there were thousands of songs released.
not all of them are remembered fondly if at all.

from this, we get an impression that those times were amazing, nope, they just had a few great songs each year hit the charts while the rest were cookie cutter copies, trying to hit the same target and failing miserably.