His search is over...16 voice twin VCO 16 part analog - what can it be?

[zerocrossing]

I know that, and I can see why that would be appealing, but I dislike using on-board sequencing. I can achieve this by other means, which leaves me to make choices based on what I think of the sonic character. Don’t get me wrong, I think that the Andromeda sounds good, but it’s still an expensive instrument that is well known for having unrepairable catastrophic failures. I’d rather own a bunch of different instruments and sequence them with software. That’s my “dream synth.”

When I was talking about the feature set, I meant as whole.
The linear/exponential FM per VCO, in either direction, soft/hard sync, noise FM in various colours, PWM FM, ring mod pre/post filter, pre/post filter sine waves, dual filters in serial/parallel configuration with feedback and all filter type outputs mixable in any combination, 3 flexible LFOs, 3 flexible envelope with adjustable slopes and dual decays/releases etc

There are a lot of things I took for granted on the Andromeda.
But on my Polybrute and Matrixbrute, as flexible as they are, you just can't do many things with noise/oscillator FM to filter or oscillators, with either oscillator or filters, or any combination, like you can on the Andromeda.

https://soundcloud.com/coolcolj/alesis- ... a-noise-fm
https://soundcloud.com/coolcolj/androme ... illator-fm

It is expensive, but back when I bought in the early 2000s, it's around the Nina, 3rd Wave module, OB-X8 module etc

The per voice step sequencer is a mod source, so I was talking about using it not only for note sequencing, but for timbral changes as well. Allowing you to do thing the Korg Wavestation could do.
And things you can't really play or sequence in a DAW quite the same way

https://soundcloud.com/coolcolj/alesis- ... -sequencer

I’d be curious to put the Andromeda A6 against Cypher II. If you post some basic examples with how you got the sounds, I’d try to match it.

[CoolColJ]

I’d be curious to put the Andromeda A6 against Cypher II. If you post some basic examples with how you got the sounds, I’d try to match it.

I'll see what I can do

[EvilDragon]

It just sounds yummy!

[egbert101]

Okay much better examples. It thumps!

[EvilDragon]

Why yes, yes it does!

[Jim Roseberry]

Reminds me of what the Moog One could have (should have) been.

[lfm]

About Moog One - how come they did not do a bunch of poly synths before?
- one bauta synth, kind of, to rule them all
- not many synths that gave them knowhow of common problems

Or am I missing something?

It seems from Tim Shoebridge among others found that many had tuning issues that was destroying tone by the calibration "fix" making it sound more like DCO synth or something.
- it became all sterile pretty much

[Jim Roseberry]

About Moog One - how come they did not do a bunch of poly synths before?
- one bauta synth, kind of, to rule them all
- not many synths that gave them knowhow of common problems

Or am I missing something?

It seems from Tim Shoebridge among others found that many had tuning issues that was destroying tone by the calibration "fix" making it sound more like DCO synth or something.
- it became all sterile pretty much

There are two different types of calibration.
- Full Oscillator Calibration
- Oscillator Compensation

Oscillator Calibration runs all 16 voices thru a large range of operating temperatures... and creates a tuning "map" that should keep intonation relatively tight (natural analog drift to be expected).

Oscillator Compensation is like Antares Auto Tune.
The pitch of a note slides into place.
The unnatural part is that sometimes you can hear a bit of the slide... and intonation can be too tight.

Full Oscillator Calibration takes hours.
Oscillator Compensation takes about 10 minutes.

After running the full Oscillator Calibration, you shouldn't need to use Oscillator Compensation.

The really frustrating part for me:
Most notes are just fine (intonation wise).
But...
Lets say I'm playing something like the verse from Aldo Nova's "Fantasy".
It's a bunch of 8th-note staccato chords.
Most of those chords sound good... but then the One will spit out a really sour note.
I'm not talking analog drift, I mean "hyper-lemon sour" out of key.
Here is an example of the occasional sour note:
https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0638/ ... 1700135650

I ran the full Oscillator Calibration countless times.
I had more hours doing that than actually playing the One.
Oscillator Compensation will prevent the odd hyper-sour note... but at the expense of losing the feel of analog drift... and you can sometimes hear the note slide into pitch.
The fact that Oscillator Compensation had to be developed, tells me the designers/techs knew there was a significant intonation issue.

Side Note:
I've never had this experience with any other current analog synth.
OB-X8, Prophet 10, Model-D reissue, PolyBrute, and Trigon-6 do not suffer this type of intonation problem. You let them warm-up, run the tuning routine... and they're good to use.

Aside from intonation issues, the onboard effects are not particularly good.
They're so weak, Moog should have just left them out.
Delays are usable, Modulation and Reverb are awful (especially given the cost).

I sent my MoogOne back to Moog... hoping they could fix the intonation problem.
They claimed they couldn't reproduce the problem.
Moog techs went ahead and replaced all the voice-cards in my One.
Got the unit back in my studio... and it had the same exact issue.
IME, To effectively use MoogOne, you have to be able to deal with the Oscillator Compensation (Auto Tune) to maintain intonation.

MoogOne is priced to be the synth equivalent of a high-end custom-shop guitar.
It should be, "The one analog synth to rule them all."
I got it thinking it would be my "One and Done" do-all be-all analog synth.
Probably the most frustrating instrument I've owned.

[lfm]

Thanks for an interesting read.

Side Note:
I've never had this experience with any other current analog synth.
OB-X8, Prophet 10, Model-D reissue, PolyBrute, and Trigon-6 do not suffer this type of intonation problem. You let them warm-up, run the tuning routine... and they're good to use.

Some had some tuning issues with Polybrute as I did too.
- had to run multiple times like it did not quite succed and just stopped in the middle somewhere
- a chord would be really off, not suddenly, but for same voice and pitch
- they have this debug menu with showing the 6 voices numbered

Looking into that I made one oscillator on left channel and one on right and recorded every note from midi I made. Then had a tuner on each note sounding long enough and made videos of that.

It seemed when working they tuned 3 oscillators a bit sharp and other 3 flat some cents or so. I figure to make it sound more vintage doing chords.
- this not using the selectable wild or other presets for tuning

But no real tuning issues for me, it stayed ok for months without new calibration.
- once it went ok with calibration

MoogOne is priced to be the synth equivalent of a high-end custom-shop guitar.
It should be, "The one analog synth to rule them all."
I got it thinking it would be my "One and Done" do-all be-all analog synth.
Probably the most frustrating instrument I've owned.

That's why I wondered why they did not do like Sequential did, a whole range of simpler polys first before doing the One.
- get more knowhow doing polys
- then doing the master piece

I got impression from Shoebridge videos that they came up with this calibrations stuff to this level after finding people had issues, as I understood a full table which voltage for which pitch and temperature.
- a desperate "save"

I would not be surprised in how many brands did resissues and found a niche market for those if Andromeda would show up.
- Arp 2600 FS
- Prophet 5
- some vintage Moog also I believe recently

[egbert101]

I think the Prologue also had tuning issues, but I think they fixed it in firmware (never had a Prologue).

[Jim Roseberry]

With MoogOne, you couldn't pin the intonation issue down to a single voice.
I disabled voices 1-8... then 9-16.
I then tried limiting to four voices.
Didn't matter which four voices, the random sour notes occurred.

Starting to wonder if any company can release a (reliable) 3-Oscillator, 16-voice true analog synth... with both State-Variable and Ladder Filters.
3rd Wave is close in features/sound... though the Oscillators and SVF are digital.
Playing a patch with 3 saw waves going thru the Curtis analog filter (2-voice unison) it sounds GIGANTIC.
Instead of trying to pursue the ideal analog synth, think I'll just enjoy the 3rd Wave.

[CoolColJ]

Doing it to those specs will just make the synth big and run hot, if you do it the discrete way.
Just physics getting in the way

[Constructed Identity]

The Prologue gets warm, does the Andromeda?

[lfm]

I think the Prologue also had tuning issues, but I think they fixed it in firmware (never had a Prologue).

I think it was the 16-voice version some had issues as I read on Korg forum.

I got my Prologue-8 2019 and had no tuning issues(just before fw 2 came). If starting to play within 20 minutes from power up you have to manually retune a couple of times, shift+exit and takes 5-10s.

Playing presets first 20 minutes that use digital engine oscillator or fm you will notice just powered up, noticing difference VCO and digital controlled.

Just leaving it 20 minutes powered up, it need no retuning at all. I think it is retuning when idle not playing and adjust like this. So even over a day no manual retuning needed.

My REV2-16 desktop got a bit warm I felt, 40 centrigrade, and asked Focusrite support about it.
- they said it is normal and nothing wrong
- but being DCO's never a tuning problem, just mention electronics gets hot

[CoolColJ]

The Prologue gets warm, does the Andromeda?

Yeah warm, but not hot.
I have a Prologue 16 and it runs fairly cool for this voice count. I think the Andromeda runs cooler but it doesn't have much inside, just some chips.





compared with the Prologue 16, she is quite a bit more sparse



The Polybrute is the closest to the Andromeda architecture in more discrete form, and even it doesn't quite match the features, and it's already big, heavy and jam packed inside.
I don't think a synth like this can scale to 16 voices and remain small and cool enough

Each of those cards is a voice board, so 12 more would require twice the thickness and depth, to allow enough space for cooling