Any chance for Linux?

[Frankie.T]

Windows keep getting worse and i'm tired of it. I'm slowly planning a switch on Linux.
Would be awesome if you could compile a version for Linux.

Flatpak may be a solution if if you ha dependency and such. Anyway every solution/support that fit better your plugins is welcome

[mevla]

Windows keep getting worse and i'm tired of it. I'm slowly planning a switch on Linux.
Would be awesome if you could compile a version for Linux. Flatpak may be a solution if if you ha dependency and such. Anyway every solution/support that fit better your plugins is welcome

I use Melda plugins since quite a few years (complete bundle/package whatever it's called, before MSoundFactory) in Linux, with Bitwig's native Linux version. Currently I use Xubuntu 22.04, Bitwig 5.0.10 and yabridge with the proper wine version for it.

From my point of view I do not see why there should be a specific Linux version of Melda's plugins. Spending the effort towards that, and the user support thereafter which is more touchy than Windows/Mac versions unless Melda imposes a unique Linux distro to run plugins, would be more of a 'political' statement than anything else, in my opinion. I do not see what Linux versions of the Melda plugins would bring more in terms of performance and stability.

I do run Linux versions when they're available, for instance with all u-he synths, which is how I started considering Linux for creating music (and not only for industrial development work) with all those amazing synths available natively to run under Harrison's Linux Mixbus DAW years ago. Nowadays I run all Melda, Voxengo, most Rob Papen synths, all Tone2 synths, IK Multimedia plugins, Sugar Bytes, Scaler 2, even some Image Line synths like Harmor and Sytrus, in Linux using Bitwig. Bitwig by itself provides a lot of tools that run natively in Linux.

For me these constitutes a broad range of tools for music creativity, possibly more that I will ever be able to discover fully in a lifetime, and that's OK.

[Frankie.T]

Thanks for your post!

I think if they can just care to be fully compatible with wine/yabridge it's welcome too.
Having an eye on being wine/yabridge compatible is different that something that may stop working for whatever reason in the future maybe because of adding an API or whatever that will work just on Win.

[mevla]

I see what you mean. I suspect that code that's properly and 'nicely' written in general will run fine within the wine Linux software adapter layer. On the other hand sloppy code with large portions of non-optimized code will have more difficulty running when there's such an overhead. Adding to that are some installers (Melda's installer is very straightforward and always works in Linux) that uses 'complicated' ways to install plugin software, when it's not squarely about copy protection schemes that are difficult to run in Linux. I avoid plugins that have such copy protection schemes and I do not consider that I'm missing anything regarding having creative synths and plugins. The other thing, as I've seen with one company, is that when upgrading a JUCE-based plugin for whatever Mac UI upgrade that's needed, it broke the display on Linux.

There's always the possibility that for whatever reasons a plugin upgrade breaks something in Linux for a plugin that otherwise ran just fine. I find this important and it's always a valuable point : am I OK with the plugins I have from a company and the price I paid for them ? Will I be just OK and continue to create music if the plugins I got from a company are the last I see from them ? I have to answer 'yes' to these questions. With Melda it's a total no-brainer. Since I got the complete bundle years ago there were so many features and plugins (MSF !! and by ricochet all the Chandler videos !) added without paying anything extra that I can answer a resounding 'yes I'm OK with what I have !' in the case a new Melda upgrade version breaks things in Linux.

So that lead me to adopt a 'woodworking' approach : as with woodworking I do with the tools I have to make things out of wood. I do not look at the latest routers, circular saws, band saws, offered in the market since my aim is to do creative stuff with the tools I have. Same goes with music creation : I spent time driven by the plugin and DAW markets - like so many people do - although I switched to creation with the tools I have instead (and not the ones I could get) which is an important notion in Linux I find. For instance, people from a Windows background with a substantial amount already invested in plugins will insist on being able to run all these plugins under Linux, something which might not be possible.

This said, there are slightly more plugins available natively for Linux today than there were 5 years ago. Does it mean that a Linux distro or two or three will eventually get a reputation for music creation and mixing at the professional level ? And motivate developers and companies to work on native Linux versions alongside Windows and Mac ?

Cheers.

[Frankie.T]

I see the situation is getting better for linux fortunatly, and i think it will be in the future due to the path MS taken with his OS that do everything but being a good OS.

Win is loosing market share, more goes on Mac, but i don't like the way they do things, breaking whatever for no reason, or even if there is a reason it's just a mess for my point of view.

[78deluxe]

I'm sure others are thinking it but won't say it.

Linux development would simply be a waste of development resources.

A tiny fraction of 1% of people use it, and the market is basically nothing. DAWs work on Linux has its own serious limitations.

Windows with all of its flaws is still the standard and works fine with rather impressive backwards compatibility considering the alternatives.

[Frankie.T]

Linux is a niche, at least for now, and probably it will last for a while, but no one know the future.

Just take a look at nokia-motorola-blackberry/android... or x86/arm on mobile (apple asked intel first, they wasn't interested). And now i see lots of people unhappy with windows, like me.

I have nothing against MS, if they would sell a real pro version without services and programs that installs themselfs or whatever bloatware and settings that change regardless my decisions, i would buy even at a premium price cause i'm lazy.

I see more and more people that would like to change, but it doesn't (like myself) cause it's painful, but not because of linux, but because the lack of support from programs people use.

Someone switch on MacOs, while others doesn't like Apple because various things, for me it's just about they keep breaking things, and i don't like, so Linux is the only solution.

More people would switch, and with more programs available on Linux, and more compatibility layers such wine/yabridge that get better over time, i think it's just matter of time to see an higher adoption.

Probably will never be super high, but the more windows is focused on games and a platform to sell their services the more they lose users, and that's a trend we have since years

https://gs.statcounter.com/os-market-sh ... 501-202310

You can see how windows is going down in favor of apple, but a tiny also to linux and chrome os, that by the way is linux

Right now as you can see from the link that's the market share

Windows
68.88%
OS X
20.31%
Chrome OS
4.09%
Unknown
3.79%
Linux
2.92%
FreeBSD
0.01%

As i said chrome os is linux, so it's 7% of market share and if win 12 will continue that path, i can just see everything else growing.

Ofc no one have a crystal ball, and probably making a linux version may be a waste of development regardless, it all depends on how difficult is to do it, i have no clue if it's just like an hour of work or if everythings needs to be rewritten.

I think it's a developer choice to see if offer something also for a niche (that may grow) and how to do it.

A native version may be the best solution if doesn't require too much work, otherwise also an official support for the windows version to work under wine it's fine too

[mevla]

I'm sure others are thinking it but won't say it. Linux development would simply be a waste of development resources.

When it runs fine on Linux as it is, like the Melda plugins for instance, why spend time developing a Linux version and, offering support for who knows how many distro variations ?

DAWs work on Linux has its own serious limitations.

Like what ? Got any specific points at all ?

[uOpt]

While it would work fine theoretically I have never seen a software vendor promise to do regular testing of their Windows build under Wine. That's just something you can't sell inside the company.

A real Linux version doesn't have that problem (even if it isn't technically necessary).

[mevla]

While it would work fine theoretically I have never seen a software vendor promise to do regular testing of their Windows build under Wine. That's just something you can't sell inside the company.

It's not that simple. The main problem with Linux is that a software company must impose a specific distro in order to keep support costs reasonable.

It's not possible to test Windows builds under Wine because it's way too abstract. It has no root in reality for many reasons. wine does not run audio plugins, for one. There's a need for loader code, for an adapter. Which one ? Certainly not the one used by the 15 last users contacting support for problems regarding our claim that our plugins were tested under wine. So let's change for yabridge. Then there'll be 12 customers with problems, 12 customers using another adaptive layer. And then the Linux distros. How come there are 23 customers who paid the full price for the complete package and have major problems running the plugins in QTractor in Slackware Linux ? Or those 14 other customers having other major problems with Waveform in MX Linux ? But we stated that all our plugins were tested for Linux compatibility ...

So on so forth. It could be fun in a distorted way if there wasn't money losses associated with all this.

[Frankie.T]

While it would work fine theoretically I have never seen a software vendor promise to do regular testing of their Windows build under Wine. That's just something you can't sell inside the company.

It's not that simple. The main problem with Linux is that a software company must impose a specific distro in order to keep support costs reasonable.

It's not possible to test Windows builds under Wine because it's way too abstract. It has no root in reality for many reasons. wine does not run audio plugins, for one. There's a need for loader code, for an adapter. Which one ? Certainly not the one used by the 15 last users contacting support for problems regarding our claim that our plugins were tested under wine. So let's change for yabridge. Then there'll be 12 customers with problems, 12 customers using another adaptive layer. And then the Linux distros. How come there are 23 customers who paid the full price for the complete package and have major problems running the plugins in QTractor in Slackware Linux ? Or those 14 other customers having other major problems with Waveform in MX Linux ? But we stated that all our plugins were tested for Linux compatibility ...

So on so forth. It could be fun in a distorted way if there wasn't money losses associated with all this.

That's where flatpak comes in help. All the needed dependencies inside your package regardless what distro you are running

[mevla]

That's where flatpak comes in help. All the needed dependencies inside your package regardless what distro you are running

The same with AppImage. Both of these are not the only way. It also depends how the application is developed. Bitwig is distributed using .deb and requires only the very basic :

Code: Select all

ldd $(which bitwig-studio)
	linux-vdso.so.1 (0x00007fff989e2000)
	libdl.so.2 => /lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libdl.so.2 (0x00007f810ef6c000)
	libpthread.so.0 => /lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libpthread.so.0 (0x00007f810ed4d000)
	librt.so.1 => /lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/librt.so.1 (0x00007f810eb45000)
	libm.so.6 => /lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libm.so.6 (0x00007f810e7a7000)
	libgcc_s.so.1 => /lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libgcc_s.so.1 (0x00007f810e58f000)
	libc.so.6 => /lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libc.so.6 (0x00007f810e19e000)
	/lib64/ld-linux-x86-64.so.2 (0x00007f810f170000)

[Hexspa]

Hi, CLAP has been out for a year and that seems more Linux-friendly. Here's to hoping the audio community can collaborate (RME, Focusrite, U-He, Bitwig, Cockos and of course Melda) to do a 1983 rerun and come up with a 40-year anniversary commemorative innovation to free ourselves from the slavery of false choice.

Happy Thanksgiving, and I'm thankful for the majority of those listed companies. Happy holidays also and here's to another year of audio madness