Does the Cinesamples Forbes Pipe Organ go down to C0-C1 range?

[kenny saunders]

I was going to get the Royal Albert Hall organ as its one of the few pipe organ libraries that seem to go down to C0 from what I can tell in videos. But the Cinesamples Forbes Pipe Organ is on sale currently but I can't tell if it goes down to C0. Does it?

It doesn't in the 1 patch you get in Musio, but looking simply at the Kontakt screen at this point, as far as I can tell that looks to go down to C0. I just don't know.

[BertKoor]

I'm not sure about this organ, but that depends on what note C0 exactly is

Middle-C is note number 60 in midi. That's often called C4 with a frequency of 261.6 Hz.
So C3 = note 48 at 130.8 Hz, C2 = #36 @ 65.4 Hz, C1 = #24 @ 32.7 Hz , C0 = #12 @ 16.4 Hz, C minus one is note zero @ 8.2 Hz.

Another convention is to appoint C5 as middle-C, then C0 is ca 32 Hz.

[immoderato]

This has a 32' bombard so yes. (In truth, it will 'feel' lower - and some organs have a 64 ft, usually a stopped flue an octave below that)

Wikipedia
C0 C͵͵ or ͵͵C or CCC Subcontra 16.352 Triple Low C (32 ft. Organ Pipes)

[immoderato]

Update: I did some research on the two instruments.

1) Character
The CB Fisk (Forbes) is designed with the north German (think: Bach) ethos combining punch and clarity. Though it is installed in a concert hall, this organ is more characteristic of a large church organ. And it is large. The Willis (Royal Albert) is a cathedral-and-up symphonic eclectic instrument with a sprawling - and deep - range of expression. Both of these libraries are excellent though I think using mood labels on various registrations, like 'dappled moonlight' or some such, is silly. On the other hand, I expect most producers might not know what a salicional is, or that an 8' Tuba is a trumpet (the Latin word for any brass-tube instrument). If your goal is a precise sound your audience is most likely to hear in live performance, perhaps with a chamber orchestra of 24 pieces, that would be the Forbes. If you are aiming for a huge movie-trailer ambience with full symphonic instrumentation, then Royal Albert is going to better fit this objective.

2) The actual instruments (stoplists) - there is no 'contra bombarde' on the real life CB FIsk (Forbes is the donor); it has two 32's, a principal (flue) and a contra posaune (reed) and I imagine the 'contra bombarde' in the Cinesamples is both in combination - which is how an organist would use them when a huge pedal is needed. Royal Albert has five, plus one that can be coupled (borrowed) from the Great; it also has a 64' flue, an octave below C0, pure fundamental which is more felt than heard.

*CB Fisk (Forbes)* https://www.pacslo.org/about/about-the- ... pipe-organ
*Willis (Royal Albert, rebuild by Mander 2004)* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Albert_Hall_Organ

3) Me?
Right now Forbes is a BF $49 deal. Done. (It's mostly what I write for, so excellent match.) But I will also get the RAH library as well, to go with my few large arrangements which would only be played in a very large performance space anyway. No rush as the BF discount isn't significant.

[KBSoundSmith]

Update: I did some research on the two instruments.

1) Character
The CB Fisk (Forbes) is designed with the north German (think: Bach) ethos combining punch and clarity. Though it is installed in a concert hall, this organ is more characteristic of a large church organ. And it is large. The Willis (Royal Albert) is a cathedral-and-up symphonic eclectic instrument with a sprawling - and deep - range of expression. Both of these libraries are excellent though I think using mood labels on various registrations, like 'dappled moonlight' or some such, is silly. On the other hand, I expect most producers might not know what a salicional is, or that an 8' Tuba is a trumpet (the Latin word for any brass-tube instrument). If your goal is a precise sound your audience is most likely to hear in live performance, perhaps with a chamber orchestra of 24 pieces, that would be the Forbes. If you are aiming for a huge movie-trailer ambience with full symphonic instrumentation, then Royal Albert is going to better fit this objective.

2) The actual instruments (stoplists) - there is no 'contra bombarde' on the real life CB FIsk (Forbes is the donor); it has two 32's, a principal (flue) and a contra posaune (reed) and I imagine the 'contra bombarde' in the Cinesamples is both in combination - which is how an organist would use them when a huge pedal is needed. Royal Albert has five, plus one that can be coupled (borrowed) from the Great; it also has a 64' flue, an octave below C0, pure fundamental which is more felt than heard.

*CB Fisk (Forbes)* https://www.pacslo.org/about/about-the- ... pipe-organ
*Willis (Royal Albert, rebuild by Mander 2004)* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Albert_Hall_Organ

3) Me?
Right now Forbes is a BF $49 deal. Done. (It's mostly what I write for, so excellent match.) But I will also get the RAH library as well, to go with my few large arrangements which would only be played in a very large performance space anyway. No rush as the BF discount isn't significant.

The Forbes does seem compelling, especially at $49. Any thoughts on Fredonia from Impact Soundworks? Seems RAH is registrations only, Fredonia stops, and Forbes seems like it does stops, but the description almost sounds like it's a hybrid of the two approaches.

[immoderato]

Yes, the Fredonia is a Schlicker - a highly reputable builder of north German style instruments - each stop individually sampled, and activated as an IRL organist would. It is not a large instrument, though its coupler system and mutation stops adds a lot of strength and versatility. If your genre is 'movie trailer' this is not going to scratch that itch, and it assumes a knowledge of how an organ actually works; my concern with individual samples vs sampled choruses (registrations) is with Forbes or RAH, chorus registrations themselves are sampled - and this is how organs are voiced, to make choruses go together. Also, if pulling out all stops, you will place a heavy demand on your processor because each individual voice has to be processed so it is not for the faint of hardware. A sampled chorus has already done that for you. The Fisk or Schlicker are of similar deportment and their best matched orchestras will be chamber sized (which will sound great). The instrument at RAH is a symphonic instrument capable of blending with, even overpowering, a full symphonic orchestra but I would bet my last dollar there is no stop on the console for 'morning dew'.

Edit: I like the Fisk (Forbes) better - the Fredonia doesn't do quiet very well; and the Fisk has a celeste in the swell, a glaring omission in Fredonia.

The actual Fredonia stoplist
https://www.fredonia.edu/about/rockefel ... nter/organ

[KBSoundSmith]

Yes, the Fredonia is a Schlicker - a highly reputable builder of north German style instruments - each stop individually sampled, and activated as an IRL organist would. It is not a large instrument, though its coupler system and mutation stops adds a lot of strength and versatility. If your genre is 'movie trailer' this is not going to scratch that itch, and it assumes a knowledge of how an organ actually works; my concern with individual samples vs sampled choruses (registrations) is with Forbes or RAH, chorus registrations themselves are sampled - and this is how organs are voiced, to make choruses go together. Also, if pulling out all stops, you will place a heavy demand on your processor because each individual voice has to be processed so it is not for the faint of hardware. A sampled chorus has already done that for you. The Fisk or Schlicker are of similar deportment and their best matched orchestras will be chamber sized (which will sound great). The instrument at RAH is a symphonic instrument capable of blending with, even overpowering, a full symphonic orchestra but I would bet my last dollar there is no stop on the console for 'morning dew'.

Edit: I like the Fisk (Forbes) better - the Fredonia doesn't do quiet very well; and the Fisk has a celeste in the swell, a glaring omission in Fredonia.

The actual Fredonia stoplist
https://www.fredonia.edu/about/rockefel ... nter/organ

Hmm, very interesting. I like the idea of controlling the individual stops, but your points on the benefit of sampling the registrations makes sense, provided the sampled registrations aren't overly limiting (Dracula preset 1, 2, 3... and nothing else, haha). The deciding factor for me might be that, as you say, "Fredonia doesn't do quiet very well." I'm planning on writing for solo male voice (lyric baritone) and generally chamber-sized pieces, so Forbes/Fisk might be the better fit. I do wish more audio of the registrations were available though.

EDIT: That said, I do enjoy some of the audio demos of the Fredonia -- the opening of "Summer Hymn (Softer Stops)" on their website is lovely https://impactsoundworks.com/product/fr ... and-organ/, so maybe adding Fredonia as a supplementary organ at a later time might make sense. I have a sense the Forbes might be easier to mix... the Fredonia has a very "forward" quality to it.

[KBSoundSmith]

Hmm, I downloaded the Musio free trial and I'm running into the same issue as the individual who posted the following video:



Anyone know if this problem is Musio specific, or does this issue also affect the Kontakt library?

EDIT: To be clear on the issue, listen to the notes upon release of the keys -- especially in lower notes, you'll hear a sudden spike in volume.

EDIT 2: Got a response on another forum -- seems to be an issue specific to Musio, not affecting the Kontakt library.