UDO Audio Super Gemini

[bmanic]

I'm so torn. I may possibly have the budget for one great new analogue synth after Christmas and I'm torn between the Super Gemini and NINA. Both have absolutely exquisite basic sound character. They are obviously very different in their tonality but I absolutely adore both. Naturally if I could afford it I would already have bought the NINA and would get the Super Gemini as well but unfortunately that is not the case.

My biggest issue with the Super Gemini is going to be space. I already have a Roland FP-30 and a Kurzweil K2500X sitting right next to me and I simply do not have the space. I can't get rid of the FP-30 as it's the family piano and everybody uses it for various practice applications and the Kurzweil K2500X is my all time bucket list synth (I have the very rare one with KDFX included!!) so that one ain't going anywhere until I hit the dirt dead. Neither can I stack things on top of each other as my audio setup is in our living room (kids took all the rooms damn it!) right in front of the main window, so naturally I can't block it out completely with audio gear. Wife's not happy about the situation as it is already!

.. and taking all these toys to work at the studio isn't an option either because then I wouldn't get any work done!

We are living in the most awesome synthesizer age of all time in my opinion. There are zero barriers to absolutely bonkers sound creation and enjoyment.. other than time, space and money (so the usual, eh?).

[zerocrossing]

I'm so torn. I may possibly have the budget for one great new analogue synth after Christmas and I'm torn between the Super Gemini and NINA. Both have absolutely exquisite basic sound character. They are obviously very different in their tonality but I absolutely adore both. Naturally if I could afford it I would already have bought the NINA and would get the Super Gemini as well but unfortunately that is not the case.

My biggest issue with the Super Gemini is going to be space. I already have a Roland FP-30 and a Kurzweil K2500X sitting right next to me and I simply do not have the space. I can't get rid of the FP-30 as it's the family piano and everybody uses it for various practice applications and the Kurzweil K2500X is my all time bucket list synth (I have the very rare one with KDFX included!!) so that one ain't going anywhere until I hit the dirt dead. Neither can I stack things on top of each other as my audio setup is in our living room (kids took all the rooms damn it!) right in front of the main window, so naturally I can't block it out completely with audio gear. Wife's not happy about the situation as it is already!

.. and taking all these toys to work at the studio isn't an option either because then I wouldn't get any work done!

We are living in the most awesome synthesizer age of all time in my opinion. There are zero barriers to absolutely bonkers sound creation and enjoyment.. other than time, space and money (so the usual, eh?).

I know the feeling. At our last place I had to keep my studio in part of the main living area, sort of a large dining room. If I owned the house I would have easily partitioned it, but I did not.

If it helps, I own a Nina and it’s a fantastic synth. it’s a joy to use, has a great character. The VCOs have a great vibe to them that’s so analog. Add that third wavetable oscillator and you have a very unique sounding instrument.

If money was no object, I’d have the Super Gemini as my main controller, replacing a Hydrasynth Deluxe. Eventually I will try and make that happen. To complicate matters, I really also want a 3rd Wave module. I could ditch the Nina for it, but my gut tells me that the 3rd Wave is a bit easier to get a similar character from than the other way round. I briefly thought about loosing m Prophet 12 module to make it happen, but that’s so unique too! I think the short term plan will be to keep the Nina, try and make a 3rd Wave happen, and maybe next Christmas get a Super Gemini and lose the Hydrasynth Deluxe, which is a good synth, but nothing I can’t really do with software.

[bmanic]

For some strange reason the 3rd Wave hasn't struck my fancy yet. To my ears the Waldorf M has a more interesting character. The 3rd Wave is a bit soft, but not in a "warm" way.. just "soft". Hard to describe. Having said that, it's a really interesting and apparently super deep synthesizer but for whatever reason it's nowhere near the uniqueness I feel NINA has. Of all of these mentioned here, NINA is the "best" sounding to my ears. One that somehow gels with my own perception of sound excellence. The Super Gemini is more of a "impressive" sounding thing but there is a slight chance I would create completely different kinds of music with it. It'd bring me right back into my "cinematic music for space games" type of thing I had going two decades ago.

Whereas the NINA I feel would automatically make me explore completely new territory due to how the morphing enables some really interesting on-the-fly experimentation.

[pdxindy]

For some strange reason the 3rd Wave hasn't struck my fancy yet. To my ears the Waldorf M has a more interesting character. The 3rd Wave is a bit soft, but not in a "warm" way.. just "soft". Hard to describe.

The Specs and workflow of the 3rd Wave looks great! But the sound demos just don't entice me enough. I wish they did cause I want to buy one, but I've learned to listen to my ears.

The Waldorf M on the other hand, doesn't have as impressive specs and the workflow is not as good, but right from the first sound demos and when I first turned mine on, and still today, it has some magic to the sound that just does it for me.

The NINA looks really interesting but I have not heard audio demos that caught my ears. Haven't searched much either though. At this point, a new synth has to really wow me cause I already have plenty of great synthesis.

[lfm]

What would difference be to have two Super 6 desktop beside each other instead?
- price would be about the same

Gemini seems like a performance instrument, not for general synth stuff in studio.

[CoolColJ]

What would difference be to have two Super 6 desktop beside each other instead?
- price would be about the same

Gemini seems like a performance instrument, not for general synth stuff in studio.

The full 20 voices for a single layer mode, with Binaural off
5 voice each layer if in dual mode and binaural on for both layers
And every possible combination in between.

Two Super 6 would give you an extra note of polyphony when layered with Binaural on.
Don't know why they went with 20, instead of 24.

The lack of display, and low amount of patch storage is a negative for me.
Ironically two Super 6 would double the patch count

[lfm]

UDO seems to be a bit off regarding patch storage
- from beginning Super 6 was planned to have 64 locations
- after feedback they increased to 128

Take 5 many felt low with 128, so a new fw recently made it 256
- a bit unclear if factory are included and overwritable or not
- there were a hidden menu to overwrite all factory in one go a good while back though

Before getting one keeper, I often store 25-30 intermediate presets to later go in different directions. So if after just a couple of hours you need to store away to external storage if just 128 locations.

500-1000 seems normal for most synths nowadays which is quite ok.

If Roland make a System-8 mk2 with like 500 storage locations I would consider it. The Boutique D-05 have 512 user locations.

[Constructed Identity]

Agreed, they don't really have an excuse to not have more storage since the synth is digital.
I was interested in this, but it doesn't offer anything groundbreaking in synthesis and I have enough.

[zerocrossing]

For some strange reason the 3rd Wave hasn't struck my fancy yet. To my ears the Waldorf M has a more interesting character. The 3rd Wave is a bit soft, but not in a "warm" way.. just "soft". Hard to describe.

The Specs and workflow of the 3rd Wave looks great! But the sound demos just don't entice me enough. I wish they did cause I want to buy one, but I've learned to listen to my ears.

The Waldorf M on the other hand, doesn't have as impressive specs and the workflow is not as good, but right from the first sound demos and when I first turned mine on, and still today, it has some magic to the sound that just does it for me.

The NINA looks really interesting but I have not heard audio demos that caught my ears. Haven't searched much either though. At this point, a new synth has to really wow me cause I already have plenty of great synthesis.

This is the one that first floored me. I literally could not help myself and put in an order for it an hour or so after I watched this.

[zerocrossing]

For some strange reason the 3rd Wave hasn't struck my fancy yet. To my ears the Waldorf M has a more interesting character. The 3rd Wave is a bit soft, but not in a "warm" way.. just "soft". Hard to describe. Having said that, it's a really interesting and apparently super deep synthesizer but for whatever reason it's nowhere near the uniqueness I feel NINA has. Of all of these mentioned here, NINA is the "best" sounding to my ears. One that somehow gels with my own perception of sound excellence. The Super Gemini is more of a "impressive" sounding thing but there is a slight chance I would create completely different kinds of music with it. It'd bring me right back into my "cinematic music for space games" type of thing I had going two decades ago.

Whereas the NINA I feel would automatically make me explore completely new territory due to how the morphing enables some really interesting on-the-fly experimentation.

I had an M for a while. It does sound very good, and I did like it, but I found it a chore to work with. The entire modulation section was so frustrating to use that I often found myself ignoring it. Shame really, because when I did use it I got fantastic results. The nail in the coffin for me was that they had the same LFO sync issues the Blofeld suffers from, and they were never resolved for the Blofeld, and something told me they'd never be resolved for the M. When Vlad (the contract developer) disappeared, after being very active on Gearspace for a long time, I didn't like the idea that we were relying on a Russian citizen for bug fixes at a time when... well you know.

But to me, the 3rd Wave is all that and multiple bags of tricks. If you want that lo-fi PPG sound, you need only use it in that mode. If you want high resolution waveforms, they're there as well. I was just reading they added all the Prophet VS waves in an update. The interface seems very good and logical, and I like having a generous voice count (I know you can add a voice card to the M) and built in effects.

[Uncle E]

For some strange reason the 3rd Wave hasn't struck my fancy yet. To my ears the Waldorf M has a more interesting character. The 3rd Wave is a bit soft, but not in a "warm" way.. just "soft".

Yes, agreed. I believe the 3rd Wave has the same filter chips as the Take 5 and UDO Super 6, and I believe that's the cause. Take 5 has that exact softness you described (dull, if we're not being generous).

Nina's filters are discrete, not chips.

[egbert101]

Love the Take 5 filter. I think it's the Prophet 5 rev 4 filter.

[CoolColJ]

3rd Wave has the same chips as the Prophet 10, but they don't sound the same.
Prophet 10 resonance screams, whereas the 3rd is more syrupy and gentle in comparison, based on my recent playing of both

The chip can be driven and run in many configs.
It’s interesting how configurable the 2140 is. From SSI:

“Virtually any type of filter response from one to four poles can be achieved including low-pass, high-pass, band-pass, all-pass, notch, Sallen & Key, biquad, Cauer, state-variable, and others.
Most importantly, great care was taken to preserve the SSM2040’s sonics including an input stage that can be overdriven for classic analog synthesizer character.”

So the 3RD wave could have added more filter modes, but I suspect having 24 of them would have made the surrounding circuitry more complex

[CoolColJ]

UDO seems to be a bit off regarding patch storage
- from beginning Super 6 was planned to have 64 locations
- after feedback they increased to 128

Take 5 many felt low with 128, so a new fw recently made it 256
- a bit unclear if factory are included and overwritable or not
- there were a hidden menu to overwrite all factory in one go a good while back though

Before getting one keeper, I often store 25-30 intermediate presets to later go in different directions. So if after just a couple of hours you need to store away to external storage if just 128 locations.

500-1000 seems normal for most synths nowadays which is quite ok.

If Roland make a System-8 mk2 with like 500 storage locations I would consider it. The Boutique D-05 have 512 user locations.

This is where Nina is king (queen) she comes with 32 banks of 127 patches, but you can create up to 127 of your own.
You could use 1 bank for each project and you would be good for a while without having to patch dump or use a Librarian.

With how cheap flash memory is these days, this should be the norm....

Both the 3rd Wave and Nina can access patches via USB as a drive rather than over midi, so bulk dumps are easy and faster.
Although the Super Gemini can do that too.
Actually the Super Gemini has 256 patch space, so better, but not in the same league.

3rd wave patches are just plain text file when accessed like this, which makes custom librarian software and processing a piece of cake to do. They have a bare bone python librarian for download, but I think they are making a proper one.
Someone has created one on the Mac.


One thing about the Polybrute and Moog One has is you can save snapshots while your patching, and then before you store a patch bring up the snapshots and compare them to original, any patch space you select while in compare mode, and each snapshot, before looking for a patch space to store it.
Although you lose all the snapshots once you save the patch... would have been better if they stayed, then you can save any number of them to separate patches.

Very handy, but not enough for 25-30 temp patches

[morphex]

The UDO sounds so creamy... it’s an inspiring instrument! And I haven’t heard about the Nina until now, but I’m on my way over to YouTube to check out some demos.

As much as I love software, I still adore an expertly crafted hardware synth that doesn’t need a computer. I just wish they were more affordable. At least they tend to hold their value if they are taken care of properly.