KVR Audio

woodsdenis · Post by **woodsdenis** » Wed Nov 29, 2023 10:28 pm

Looks very well thought out and fair testing, not a computer geek but liked like a comprehensive test.

tuzemec · Post by **tuzemec** » Thu Nov 30, 2023 8:50 am

Wow... that's a pretty nice video. Thanks for sharing!

woodsdenis · Post by **woodsdenis** » Thu Nov 30, 2023 8:59 pm

TBH amazed how well CB 13 does.

machinesworking · Post by **machinesworking** » Thu Nov 30, 2023 9:13 pm

woodsdenis wrote: Thu Nov 30, 2023 8:59 pm TBH amazed how well CB 13 does.

Same, honestly it makes me question his results. In my observations over the years Cubase on Mac OS has performed slightly worse than Logic, DP, and Reaper. Maybe Cubase 13 fixed things, maybe something is wrong with his Logic setup. To be fair Logic bounces around a lot in tests like this, probably due to it's unique arming of tracks traits and relative buffering etc.

Mostly, Reaper usually does much better than his results, but he started using the absolute largest buffer of any DAW test I've ever seen. Mostly by the time you're using a 1024 buffer, you're in the mix stage, there's no way you're composing unless everything you do is with a piano roll and pencil tool So I'm not so sure the results are that interesting considering only recoding engineers are going to want to use a 1024 buffer. A reasonable choice would be 128, since it's low enough to get MIDI in without too much latency etc.

One final though, it's actually possible Cubase still performs better at larger buffers than at lower. In the earlier years of OS X Cubase was absolutely trounced by every other DAW at 64, 128 and 512, only really getting competitive at 1024 etc. It could still have low buffer issues and be more than competitive at 1024. Careful about leaning heavily on tests that use settings you're not using while composing.

chagzuki · Post by **chagzuki** » Thu Nov 30, 2023 9:59 pm

I happened to watch this yesterday. I'm confused as I'm pretty sure that Logic can use the efficiency cores... but further tests would be required.

machinesworking · Post by **machinesworking** » Fri Dec 01, 2023 9:24 am

chagzuki wrote: Thu Nov 30, 2023 9:59 pm I happened to watch this yesterday. I'm confused as I'm pretty sure that Logic can use the efficiency cores... but further tests would be required.

Just did a quick test based on the Logic test off the internet here:
https://music-prod.com/logic-pro-benchmarks/

So Far I only tested Logic, Live and Digital Performer, I'll get to Reaper, Bitwig etc. soon.
Mac Studio M2 Ultra, 24 cores 128GB RAM. Babyface FS interface.
All Daws are set to a 128 buffer, 48k

Logic gets 110 tracks before overload, but yeah, it's not really using the Efficiency cores much at all. Basically it's using the 16 Performance cores.

Digital Performer 11 gets 140 tracks without issues. No red bar in it's CPU meters, and no warning or artifacts in the audio. It uses all 24 cores.

In no surprise to me I'm getting 80 tracks in Live 11, real time audio costs CPU. It's also not using the Efficiency cores, artifacts in the audio above 80 tracks.

machinesworking · Post by **machinesworking** » Fri Dec 01, 2023 9:29 am

For fun comparing the performance of Logic using only 16 core and DP using 24, with a little math it looks like M2 CPUs with Diva track counts get 6.875 per Performance Core and 3.75 instances per Efficiency core. These aren't real numbers since Logic and DP use slightly different buffering and pre rendering tricks to get high track counts, but it's probably not that far off.

machinesworking · Post by **machinesworking** » Fri Dec 01, 2023 9:56 am

Reaper also gets 140 tracks and uses all 24 cores here.

replicant X · Post by **replicant X** » Fri Dec 01, 2023 11:14 am

deleted

woodsdenis · Post by **woodsdenis** » Fri Dec 01, 2023 5:46 pm

It’s an interesting topic and great info to have when deciding which processor to use. I suggest any one who has questions or contrary results to post them in the YT comments so he be can address them.

machinesworking · Post by **machinesworking** » Fri Dec 01, 2023 6:00 pm

woodsdenis wrote: Fri Dec 01, 2023 5:46 pm It’s an interesting topic and great info to have when deciding which processor to use. I suggest any one who has questions or contrary results to post them in the YT comments so he be can address them.

I did, he hasn't, it's youtube, some people don't read their comments to save some brain cells so I don't blame him.

syntonica · Post by **syntonica** » Sat Dec 02, 2023 2:56 am

machinesworking wrote: Fri Dec 01, 2023 9:24 am Digital Performer 11 gets 140 tracks without issues.

This is a complete, but pleasant surprise. Same as Cubase, which has always been a bit of a CPU pig.

No other shockers with the other DAWs.

machinesworking · Post by **machinesworking** » Sat Dec 02, 2023 8:14 am

syntonica wrote: Sat Dec 02, 2023 2:56 am
machinesworking wrote: Fri Dec 01, 2023 9:24 am Digital Performer 11 gets 140 tracks without issues.
This is a complete, but pleasant surprise. Same as Cubase, which has always been a bit of a CPU pig.

No other shockers with the other DAWs.

Yeah over the years of using it DP went from almost as much of a CPU pig as Cubase back when it had huge problems with low latency performance on OS X to being neck and neck with Logic, and lately to beating Logic, and now being at Reapers level, that last of which is truly surprising.

I don't own Cubase so I can't test it, but it seems that DP and Cubase have jumped ahead of Logic and are near or at Reaper level with the M2 at least. It's definitely not the only factor to me when choosing a DAW to work with, I still use Live, the MPC and Bitwig occasionally, but any large template type project I'm doing in DP for sure.

stoopicus · Post by **stoopicus** » Sat Dec 02, 2023 9:21 am

I am actually surprised Logic doesn't use the efficiency cores at all.

machinesworking · Post by **machinesworking** » Sat Dec 02, 2023 7:06 pm

stoopicus wrote: Sat Dec 02, 2023 9:21 am I am actually surprised Logic doesn't use the efficiency cores at all.

My theory is they turned it off because of some issues with efficiency cores not relinquishing control to performance cores that well in Ventura and Sonoma. Blue Cat have blogs about audio dropouts in their plugins that host other plugins, ones that might want to access multi core support etc. Basically teething pains in Apple Silicon. Personally I've experienced some glitches in DAWs related to plugins that aren't optimized for Sonoma, and some of that is probably due to this issue.

Why I'm certain they turned it off, Logic still recognized in it's Settings that my M2 is 24 cores, and you can set it for 24 cores, but it only uses the performance cores whether you set it for 16 or 24.

With Live I never expect Ableton to deal with anything that might have issues with audio dropouts, Live does not use a secondary buffer, and everything is expected to happen in real time.

Testing of DAW performance on all 3 Mac M processors.