Live 12 or Bitwig 5.1

[SLiC]

Cant you even load Bitwig files into Ableton and vice versa now?

Not yet, unless Ableton adopt the DAWproject file format

DAWproject is an open and free file format that makes it much easier to move from one DAW to another, you can load Bitwig files into Studio One as both have adopted it.

Live will load files in to some hardware hardware like MPC etc

[Jolaff]

Cant you even load Bitwig files into Ableton and vice versa now?

Not yet, unless Ableton adopt the DAWproject file format

DAWproject is an open and free file format that makes it much easier to move from one DAW to another, you can load Bitwig files into Studio One as both have adopted it.

Live will load files in to some hardware hardware like MPC etc

You can open Live project (.als) with Bitwig ...I never really had good results since most of my Live projects uses AU plugin...

[SLiC]

Cant you even load Bitwig files into Ableton and vice versa now?

Not yet, unless Ableton adopt the DAWproject file format

DAWproject is an open and free file format that makes it much easier to move from one DAW to another, you can load Bitwig files into Studio One as both have adopted it.

Live will load files in to some hardware hardware like MPC etc

You can open Live project (.als) with Bitwig ...I never really had good results since most of my Live projects uses AU plugin...

Yes, I had forgotten about that! Also never used it! Makes sense as Live has a very large user base Bitwig wants to attract!

https://www.bitwig.com/support/technica ... ts-als-40/

[liquidsound]

Ableton’s ability to use M4L, in more and powerful ways than before, is the right signal a huge amount of users needed to seal the deal and keep or comeback to Live and be excited about what’s unfolding with this powerful music company.

This can only be the beginning of a new phase and direction we are witnessing and it’s extremely exiting indeed.

If you can afford to buy both, why not…
I own Bitwig but I stopped using it for several reasons.

[jlgrimes11]

Please talk me in our out of one if these.

Long story long, I use Pro Tools as a 'tape recorder' and everything always ends up in Pro Tools and that won't change. I however like to use different software for sketching ideas. I basically have everything from Cubase to Ableton to Logic to whatever. I have Ableton Lite which has been perfectly enough for what I need it for and have been using it as a sort of notebook for quick ideas. I record a lot of HW synths and so seamless integration is key. I have recently demoed Bitwig again (did it a couple of years ago and left it there) and my first impression was that it wasn't as intuitive and fast as Live (for creating melodies, putting BEATSSSS together etc), however, there is something about it that makes it very appealing. First of all the way I can integrate hardware and modulate it is absolutely amazing. I hate to say this, and 100% placebo, but it sounds better? I read opinions before stating that Bitwig is much 'tighter' than Live, especially with HW, and this has been my impression too, so this can kinda make it sound 'better' in a way. Live is quite laggy when sending midi out to external hardware, to me at least. But boy I love the new midi features in the new Live version. So muuuuch faster than Betwig. Also the interface of Ableton looks cleaner. There is, however, something inviting about Bitweg.

Anyway, I want to buy into one of these babies as there are good sales going on both sides atm. My fingers are burning to press BUY NOW. Don't expect people to decide on behalf of me. Just to wash my brain and influence me. Betweg or Abelton that is the question

My guess is that you can't go wrong with either.

Ableton being an older program probably is better in terms of controller support and included instruments and effects (Suite version). M4L is also a deep programming environment (probably too deep for the casual user but there is plenty of free devices for the casual user to benefit from without ever needing to actually go inside M4L to edit/develop)). I think Ableton still for the most part has deeper warping modes for audio loops and sampling. From what I can tell Ableton's devices feel a bit more like standalone devices where Bitwig's devices seem to interact more with each other. This could be a good or a bad thing depending on your workflow.

Bitwig from what I hear though has a more streamlined interface especially in terms of modulation features and if you already have an extensive VST collection, you might not care as much about the included instruments and effects of Ableton Suite. Bitwig is also cheaper and has no Suite version so it's standard version would have more bells and whistles than Ableton's standard version which might be alot more limited than Bitwig. Bitwig seems to be more about modulation. Ableton Suite also has some of the features but is probably a bit clunky as it requires M4L to do alot of those features which is probably a bit slower than direct native support.

Bitwig in some areas seem to be a bit more forward thinking and appears to have a faster development cycle (at least for now).

Ableton 12 seems to make up some from some of its shortcomings such as no mixer in arrangement mode but it is determined whether it is fully on par (I guess not in some areas).

But that said for most tasks I would think both DAWS are fairly similar.

[zerocrossing]

Please talk me in our out of one if these.

Long story long, I use Pro Tools as a 'tape recorder' and everything always ends up in Pro Tools and that won't change. I however like to use different software for sketching ideas. I basically have everything from Cubase to Ableton to Logic to whatever. I have Ableton Lite which has been perfectly enough for what I need it for and have been using it as a sort of notebook for quick ideas. I record a lot of HW synths and so seamless integration is key. I have recently demoed Bitwig again (did it a couple of years ago and left it there) and my first impression was that it wasn't as intuitive and fast as Live (for creating melodies, putting BEATSSSS together etc), however, there is something about it that makes it very appealing. First of all the way I can integrate hardware and modulate it is absolutely amazing. I hate to say this, and 100% placebo, but it sounds better? I read opinions before stating that Bitwig is much 'tighter' than Live, especially with HW, and this has been my impression too, so this can kinda make it sound 'better' in a way. Live is quite laggy when sending midi out to external hardware, to me at least. But boy I love the new midi features in the new Live version. So muuuuch faster than Betwig. Also the interface of Ableton looks cleaner. There is, however, something inviting about Bitweg.

Anyway, I want to buy into one of these babies as there are good sales going on both sides atm. My fingers are burning to press BUY NOW. Don't expect people to decide on behalf of me. Just to wash my brain and influence me. Betweg or Abelton that is the question

I personally moved from Live to Bitwig and I don’t remember feeling it sounded better or was any more or less laggy. The reason I did it was that, at the time, Live did not support polyphonic aftertouch or MPE, and I had gotten a Roli Rise that had become a central part of how I make music. It still is. Since. Then, Live has introduced both polyphonic aftertouch and MPE, though I believe with the latter it is not as robust in terms of editing.

I think the only reason to pick Bitwig over Live today is if you think you’ll use Bitwig’s Grid and superb modulation system. If you ever start using plugins that are made for the CLAP format, you’ll find that adding per-voice modulation to that plugin is a breeze. I’d been requesting more envelopes for Diva for years, now I don’t have to request that, because I can add it myself. Also, I use Bitwig’s audio follower plugin a lot to side chain anything. Want to control the level of one of Legend’s oscillators based on the kick drum track? Easy. Want to control a specific bandwidth of another track based on the vocal? Easy.

Other than that, I think it comes down to personal taste. The only thing I really miss from Live is the Looper device, which lets you set the project’s tempo by recording an audio loop. I do a lot of ambient music, and this was a great way to compose on the fly. I was never a big, “record clips and string them together in a live show” kind of guy, so there’s that. I did try it for a little while, but that kind of looping isn’t for me. I’d rather use MSuperLooper, though back when I was doing live shows it was Möbius.

[xbitz]

I'm surprised with Bitwig when it works and with Ableton when it doesn't. Also, you can't use Bitwig in daylight; you can't see a damn thing, and there are other negligible differences as well.

ps. anyway I would add the winner answer medal to MusicRadar https://www.musicradar.com/news/ableton ... wig-studio

[audiouser720]

Also, you can't use Bitwig in daylight; you can't see a damn thing

Why no curtain in your room??? I have had no issues with looking at Betwig in the daylight but I have curtain and or blinder in my room

[stoopicus]

Is there a way to change the themes/colors of Bitwig? The default of Orange, Brownish/Less Orange, and Black are a fine choice for halloween but it would be nice to change them out for better choices.

I do like their UI improvements over Live. The initial recording workflow seemed a bit odd to me coming from other DAWs but I am sure I could get in to it.

You have to spring for the full version to get The Grid, right?

[EnGee]

I prefer Bitwig because of the following reasons:
1. Bitwig runs natively well on Linux. Live doesn't.
2. The Grid is easier and better performance than M4L.
3. Modulation is part of the system not through another layer (like M4L in Live).
4. Bitwig performance is much better than Live on Windows.
5. Shortcuts are more logical and easier to remember in Bitwig.

There are shortcomings in Bitwig though and Live is better with:
1. Grooves.
2. Buying versions upgrades is better than yearly updates.

I personally like Bitwig colours and environment. The arrangement view and mixer still better than Live as I can see in the mixer which plugins in the track.
I sold Live 11 Suite and switched to Bitwig Studio. I regret buying several M4L plugins as I can't use them now. Anyway, I'm running Bitwig on Linux most of the times now with few native VST plugins and it is a very stable system. I use my hardware synths now to fill in the gaps and I honestly don't miss the mess in Windows or Mac that I created

[machinesworking]

Owning both I don't yet really have a preference.
I bought Bitwig for MPE support, for what I do with MPE Live's implementation recently is good enough now, and I'm collaborating with someone who uses Live.

Live's dual monitor support is better, the templates for multiple monitors in Bitwig are awkward, they change keyboard shortcuts depending on which you use etc. MIDI comping to me is more useful than Bitwigs comping. Max4Live is far more advanced than the Grid, this isn't by some small amount, it literally includes video VJing tools, full SysEx support, iPad touch screen controllers for granular synthesizers, in general Live has a far larger third party hardware support ecosystem than Bitwig. There's REX support and Audio Unit support on Mac OS. Retrospective Record is more than a gimmick to me.

In Bitwig the audio and MIDI together and Clips with multiple audio parts in it is great. The plugin sandboxing is beyond great, it really hardly ever has any issues because flatly plugins are 99% of the problem with any DAW really in terms of stability. With Live, Max is an older technology and also can have issues, so between the Grid and plug in sandboxing, Bitwig wins the stability game. (I have little issues with Live to be honest though) The plugin sandboxing means that it works with VST plugins that are not Apple Silicon ready. It's a newer DAW so the keyboard shortcuts are dead logical, v for virtual instrument plugin window, b for the browser, e for edit etc. etc. The only odd duck is some Live shortcut copies like command r for renaming tracks etc. Bitwig is now more CPU efficient than Live.

I think in many ways it's not an easy choice, it really depends on what is important to you. I agree with others here that the 3 years or so upgrade is a less expensive option, but up front Live Suite is expensive. Mostly the things I don't like are things I don't like in both, namely the arrangement limitations.

[Dionysos]

I agree with most people here in that in isolation it's not an easy choice to make and requires trying both out to see which trade-offs are more acceptable, and which DAW simply feels better.

In the OP's case, since they're already familiar with Live and find Bitwig less intuitive to use, I'd recommend them to just stick with Live, even though the hw synth sync issues should be worth further investigation.

[SLiC]

I prefer Bitwig because of the following reasons:
1. Bitwig runs natively well on Linux. Live doesn't.
2. The Grid is easier and better performance than M4L.
3. Modulation is part of the system not through another layer (like M4L in Live).
4. Bitwig performance is much better than Live on Windows.
5. Shortcuts are more logical and easier to remember in Bitwig.

There are shortcomings in Bitwig though and Live is better with:
1. Grooves.
2. Buying versions upgrades is better than yearly updates.

I personally like Bitwig colours and environment. The arrangement view and mixer still better than Live as I can see in the mixer which plugins in the track.
I sold Live 11 Suite and switched to Bitwig Studio. I regret buying several M4L plugins as I can't use them now. Anyway, I'm running Bitwig on Linux most of the times now with few native VST plugins and it is a very stable system. I use my hardware synths now to fill in the gaps and I honestly don't miss the mess in Windows or Mac that I created

I agree the Grid is easier and has more direct integration, but to be fair that is because it is far more limited than MAX, it is like having Reaktor in a DAW which is cool- but I also have Reaktor!

I have a few more reasons to use Live (just basing this on 11 as haven't tried 12 yet)

1. Max Devices availability (7000 of them you can just download and play with)
2. Midi Comping (come on Bitwig!)
3. I like grid lines I can see! (I prefer the Live interface overall)
4. Retrospective capture
5. I actually use the audio to midi conversion!
6. The content in Suite (everything you need)
7. PUSH integration ( its 100x better than using it with Bitwig as every device, pack and fx is mapped to knobs with nice graphical feedback, you really can use it standalone without looking at the computer screen for a hardware experience)

Integrated find similar sounds/pre-sets may make this list in 12 as may better piano roll editing. lets see!

[xbitz]

yepp learning M4L seems like a better investment; however, it's still annoying that some M4L devices are so tied to a specific operating system or a particular version of Live or paid one

btw. Ab has put together a pretty nice series of M4L lessons just found it
https://www.ableton.com/en/packs/building-max-devices/

[HOTF]

the best one will be the one you invest the more effort in.