Sad state of Native Instruments

[chk071]

Unbelievable.

Not if you know the company.

[Vocalpoint Studios]

Firewire is being disabled on newer Apple OSes, say goodbye to your perfectly working Firewire Audio card. Unbelievable.

According to the (great) vid - Apple started this phase out "back between 2008-2016" - sounds to me like they gave everyone at 7-8 years to get organized. Or did everyone just think they were just going to let it slide?

When it comes to Apple - you guys should know better.

Or - simply do not update and stay on your FW.

VP

[mabian]

Firewire is being disabled on newer Apple OSes, say goodbye to your perfectly working Firewire Audio card. Unbelievable.

According to the (great) vid - Apple started this phase out "back between 2008-2016" - sounds to me like they gave everyone at 7-8 years to get organized. Or did everyone just think they were just going to let it slide?

When it comes to Apple - you guys should know better.

Or - simply do not update and stay on your FW.

VP

Does "throw away your working hardware just because we need to move on" mean "get organized"?

Ok, happy to not being there

- Mario

[Vocalpoint Studios]

Does "throw away your working hardware just because we need to move on" mean "get organized"?

If you tie any of your gear investments to anything Apple makes - that is exactly what it means.

Again - anyone dealing with this company should know this by now.

Apple does not care about your "working hardware" - they have been killing stuff off for decades with little care or consequence.

But - their "customers" just keep on buying into this never-ending cycle - like it's nothing.

VP

[PAK]

Firewire is being disabled on newer Apple OSes, say goodbye to your perfectly working Firewire Audio card.
Unbelievable.

Almost as unbelievable as acting as if they can’t use older versions of Mac OS. On the Intel side of things it’s also highly likely someone will hack support back for as long as feasible. The Hackintosh side of things has support for all sorts of things which aren’t supported by Apple.

BTW If you find this "unbelievable", I’m curious as to your opinion on Microsoft deliberately blocking hundreds of millions of machines from installing Windows 11? My first gen i7 is perfectly capable of running it, as is evident by the fact it runs just fine if you use workarounds to remove their unjustified restrictions.

Point being, if Windows users don’t think more of this stuff is headed their way then, I fear, they’re in for some major disappointments over the coming years..

[Vocalpoint Studios]

Point being, if Windows users don’t think more of this stuff is headed their way, then I fear they’re in for some major disappointments over the coming years.

As a very happy Win user - I am not naive about things "headed my way" but I must say - I continue to be astounded that as each "September" goes by (8 of them so far) - as the Mac crowds go headlong into another third party support chaos cycle - I can sit here knowing my OS (Windows 10 22H2) is solid mature and reliable.

Then I am also able to throw whatever new hardware I want into the DAW every 3 years and reinstall that same OS over and over again ON that new hardware for anywhere between 10-13 years and not once - ever worry about it not working or not supporting this VST or that DAW.

Disappointment? Not really.

VP

[mabian]

BTW If you find this "unbelievable", I’m curious as to your opinion on Microsoft deliberately blocking hundreds of millions of machines from installing Windows 11. My first gen i7 is perfectly capable of running it, as is evident by the fact it runs just fine if you use workarounds to remove their unjustified restrictions.

Not nice, but not quite the same: at least they are not preventing me from using any working device I own. And Win 10 is still being actively supported at least for a couple years.

And, when it goes out of support, I can still use my PC with it.

(BTW, I am also locked out of Windows 11...)

- Mario

[digitalboytn]

Point being, if Windows users don’t think more of this stuff is headed their way, then I fear they’re in for some major disappointments over the coming years.

As a very happy Win user - I am not naive about things "headed my way" but I must say - I continue to be astounded that as each "September" goes by (8 of them so far) - as the Mac crowds go headlong into another third party support chaos cycle - I can sit here knowing my OS (Windows 10 22H2) is solid mature and reliable.

Then I am also able to throw whatever new hardware I want into the DAW every 3 years and reinstall that same OS over and over again ON that new hardware for anywhere between 10-13 years and not once - ever worry about it not working or not supporting this VST or that DAW.

Disappointment? Not really.

VP

[BBFG#]

I’m curious as to your opinion on Microsoft deliberately blocking hundreds of millions of machines from installing Windows 11? My first gen i7 is perfectly capable of running it, as is evident by the fact it runs just fine if you use workarounds to remove their unjustified restrictions.

This is exactly why I'm interested more than ever before to move to Linux. I often also wonder why our community aren't using streamlined server OSs.

My most single issue with the Behemoths and almost all plugins is the ability to strip them of everything we consider useless and have the lean, mean production station that does what we want.

[PAK]

As a very happy Win user - I am not naive about things "headed my way" but I must say - I continue to be astounded that as each "September" goes by (8 of them so far) - as the Mac crowds go headlong into another third party support chaos cycle - I can sit here knowing my OS (Windows 10 22H2) is solid mature and reliable.

Whilst some of that is true it’s greatly overstated. Like I said, I’d stuff like FM7 running fine on Mac OS right up until their late 2019 OS. Given the attitudes of many you’d think this sort of thing shouldn’t be possible! Which tips you off to the fact that, in terms of the narrative you’ll get on KVR / online in general, it’s highly skewed and often inaccurate - though there is a reason. Which is..

A very large percentage of Mac users demand to use "the latest thing" and also insist on using Apple's solutions. This is despite it being historically PROVEN that AU will cause you more problems over time. The cherry on the cake is many then blame everyone but Apple when something doesn’t workm and they tend to shout the loudest.

Once you step outside of Logic and AU the picture tends to settle considerably, in terms of OS changes and the problems they cause.

Then I am also able to throw whatever new hardware I want into the DAW every 3 years and reinstall that same OS over and over again ON that new hardware for anywhere between 10-13 years and not once - ever worry about it not working or not supporting this VST or that DAW

But you appear to assume a similar experience isn't possible on the Apple side? It is - I could use FM7 on a Mac OS that was supported right up until some point in late 2020 iirc. The issue is Apple's own (non-OS) software frequently ties itself to demand support for both the latest OS and standards. Step away from Logic and AU and you tend to step away from many of the issues.

In terms of other support - Things like RME PCIE cards, from well over a decade ago, can also be flashed to work just fine with the latest Apple Silicon Macs too. A lot of these things are related to the quality of the vendors. EG Good luck ever trying to get that sort of longevity out of anything NI make, even on Windows.

I should also clarify I use both OS. In terms of Windows it's still to go through changes related to ARM processor support, as well as whether Microsoft finally do what they wanted to do for years - create some distance between the consumer OS and business (The business side is why regular users have enjoyed better compatibility.. )

[Vocalpoint Studios]

A very large percentage of Mac users not only demand to use "the latest thing", they also insist on using the Apple solutions.

Then they should stick with Apple products exclusively (including stiock plugins) and leave the rest of the third-party plugin whining behind.

But you appear to assume a similar experience isn't possible on the Apple side? It is - I could use FM7 on a Mac OS that was supported right up until some point in late 2020 iirc.

But you can't run FM7 on Sonoma - today. That is the point. I can with no issues

I mean cmon - it's easy to find thousands who can't even run Kontakt 7.7.2 on Somoma right now.

Who wants be waiting aimlessly for months while the rest of the known world takes their sweet time getting your "go-to" plugs supported? Makes zero sense to me.

I would rather be creating than waiting around for every vendor to bow to Apples will.

VP

[PAK]

Not nice, but not quite the same: at least they are not preventing me from using any working device I own. And Win 10 is still being actively supported at least for a couple years.

And, when it goes out of support, I can still use my PC with it.
(BTW, I am also locked out of Windows 11...)

Dropping OS support is not stopping you from using a working device on an older OS. You’re also showing a truck load of naivety in this response. Are you old enough to remember Windows 9x/ME? When Microsoft moved, from Windows 98/ME to XP, it caused a ton of hardware to stop working on the newer OS (XP). Expensive audio software also stopped working, trapped forever on 9x.

Think that sort of thing’s in the past? NOPE. RME can’t provide Windows 7 support for their newest drivers because Microsoft won’t sign them! They are forever stuck using old drivers.. because Microsoft.

Windows 11 is unlikely to help the situation, and not off to a great start when it’s blocking hundreds of millions of users for no good reasons.

[boombaxx]

Not sure what is going on i bought a S88 mk2 with Komplete 14 licence full only a few months ago. GR7 is a demo and it says Kontakt 7 is a full licence but only works in player mode. What have i bought here i am not sure. Now it,s saying some of my libraries need Kontakt 7 to work. Why is NI trying to lock me out of stuff i have paid for

[Vocalpoint Studios]

Not sure what is going on i bought a S88 mk2 with Komplete 14 licence full only a few months ago. GR7 is a demo and it says Kontakt 7 is a full licence but only works in player mode. What have i bought here i am not sure.

What you have bought is Komplete Select with that keyboard.

I have never seen a Komplete Keyboard ever be sold with Komplete Standard or Ultimate etc.

Check your NI account for all the details.

VP

[PAK]

Then they should stick with Apple products exclusively (including stiock plugins) and leave the rest of the third-party plugin whining behind.

Won't get much argument from me there.

But you can't run FM7 on Sonoma - today. That is the point. I can with no issues

No, you can’t. Unless they backtracked (?) NI stopped authorising the software, whether Windows or Mac, a few years back. AKA Why challenge / response isn't the best idea.

Who wants be waiting aimlessly for months while the rest of the known world takes their sweet time getting your "go-to" plugs supported? Makes zero sense to me.

All I can tell you is I (personally)haven't (touch machine-milled aluminium) noticed plugin issues yet on Sonoma. A lot of issue often tend to come from people upgrading their OS rather tha backing up and starting fresh.