KVR Audio

sc_a · Post by **sc_a** » Mon Dec 27, 2004 9:12 am

Storm, but if you go the DIY-route, you could use the free tracktion with final mix - that won't break your vallet

useruseruser · Post by **useruseruser** » Mon Dec 27, 2004 4:03 pm

You definately *need* to master your compilation.
It's essentilally.

Even some things can be corrected with mastering (even the mentioned voice problems).

Probably the best solution is in most cases, that a different experienced person does that for or even together with you.

But for sure some experienced ppl can say you, what the problems are while listening to your songs...

Yourselfes often are not able anymore to hear it.

Tip: Download shopisticated mastering software and try out different presets (i.e. iZotope Ozone). You will be surprised, what some tools are able to do with some clicks today. At least you will get a new perspective or "sight" of your tone production.

Tweak the tools extremely an listen to the results. You will get very fast an idea, where the holes in your songs are...

.

Stupid American Pig · Post by **Stupid American Pig** » Mon Dec 27, 2004 4:16 pm

Just make sure that whoever masters your record doesnt adopt the philosophy of "LOUDER is better". These days records are getting all of their transients and dynamics squashed out of them.

I honestly prefer little to no
production/mastering/meddling to slickly (over)produced pristine sounding 3.5 minute chunks of audio.

CC4 · Post by **CC4** » Mon Dec 27, 2004 5:12 pm

pop in your CD with your favorite newer albums (don't compare it to your old Pink Floyd CD), and see how it stands up. it may just need fine tuning. it may need nothing, and a cheaper mastering facility may make it sound worse.

now if you're going to make several hundred copies or more, some duplication services offer "mastering" as an additional service. Although I'm far from my own release (being worked to death and all; five whole songs done though), I've had to deal with this a bit in the "business" world. you may get better rates with a place local to you; flip to mastering/duplication in your yellow pages:

http://www.discmakers.com/
Disc Makers has a "SoundLab," and their post-production tune up is a bit cheaper from their mastering rates (if you indeed think your mix is good). They do bar coding, covers, printing on CD. If you're working on singles, they make some pretty nice cardboard covers. They also sell nice blank media and duplication systems for the complete do it yourselfers.

some others -

mastering:
http://www.indierec.com/
http://www.northeasterndigital.com/
http://www.digitalsunspot.com/
http://www.precisionmastering.com/

Dupes:
http://www.guitarcenter.com/cdduplication/
http://www.frontporchcd.com/
http://www.getmemusic.com/
http://www.theorchard.com/

TheStorm · Post by **TheStorm** » Mon Dec 27, 2004 10:05 pm

Mo Verdigast wrote:How are you distributing your CD? Are you selling it at your concerts or do you use a web-based service or what? Just curious. I'm thinking of doing a CD but I don't know what I would do with it after I pressed it.

Actually, I'm just giving it to everyone I know. Really. I didn't do it for the money, I did it because I knew I had this record in me, as silly as it may sound.

What I wasn't prepared for was the depth and complexity of the CD I wound up making. It's got some of everything, from classical to metal, from country to dance. And I don't even listen to some of those styles. They just came out. I don't question my muse, I just follow it.

I dunno if I'll do another one, but I sure am happy with this CD. The only complaint I've got is that recording software is extremely crude at this point. I think we're in the Model-T era of recording.

DevonB · Post by **DevonB** » Mon Dec 27, 2004 10:20 pm

mrspecial wrote:mr special's dissertation on mastering:
1. you need to get something mastered. it is very, very important. the best mixes in the world don't sound huge untill run through a nice limiter. and, to keep up with todays standard, you want your cd to sound as loud as possible (at least in the parts you want to be loud) with out clipping.

Ugh! I wish people would STOP doing this. Your stereo has a volume knob FOR A REASON. If your aim is radio airplay, their compressor is much more kind if you haven't limited the crap out of your track. Dynamics are a GOOD thing. Squashing the hell out of your song is a BAD thing. Recording Magazine was kind enough to publish my little rant on this in the Jaunary 2005 issue for Fade Out.

If you REALLY care about your tracks, get a real mastering engineer to do the job for you, plain and simple.

Devon

TheStorm · Post by **TheStorm** » Mon Dec 27, 2004 11:10 pm

Thanks again for all the advice. Unfortunately, asking a pro engineer to master the CD is out of the question (not only do I not have the money, I don't know if my stuff is good enough to justify such an expense).

Samplitude does have dedicated mastering tools - they're designed to work with stereo tracks, though, after mixdown - and I'd like some analysis beforehand, if possible. Plus they're pretty darn complicated for a neophyte like me.

As far as compression/limiting/gates, etc., goes, I realize that part of the whole mastering process is application of these filters, but as pointed out above, I really HATE commercial CDs that have been compressed to death, so I've only used compression where absolutely necessary, although I realize that this is the exact opposite of what pros would do.

In the end, I suppose there's nothing for it but to go through and learn the mastering phase, but I'm really afraid that I'm going to screw up the sound of the tracks that I really like. I'll try it, but if I don't like the results, I'm just going with the CD that I've been using (after final mixdown, of course). An expert set of ears would be most helpful, though, that's for sure. It's darned hard to be objective about this stuff.

Mighty_Hero · Post by **Mighty_Hero** » Mon Dec 27, 2004 11:13 pm

DevonB wrote:If you REALLY care about your tracks, get a real mastering engineer to do the job for you, plain and simple.

Devon

Agree all the way.

mr.me · Post by **mr.me** » Mon Dec 27, 2004 11:56 pm

Can you guys recommend someone?

mrspecial · Post by **mrspecial** » Tue Dec 28, 2004 1:20 am

DevonB wrote:Ugh! I wish people would STOP doing this. Your stereo has a volume knob FOR A REASON. If your aim is radio airplay, their compressor is much more kind if you haven't limited the crap out of your track. Dynamics are a GOOD thing. Squashing the hell out of your song is a BAD thing.

i think you mis understood me. i never said anything about squashing the f**k out of a track and squelching the dynamics, i simply said its important to get the parts of a track you want to be loud as loud as possible without it clipping. this doesn't entail setting the threshold of a limiter to -100 ... you are welcome to mix your record to -60db to prove a point if you want, but somewhere along the line someone is going to pop a limiter on it and set the output to -60db....
people always bitch about this, but who cares, really? since hardly no one is writing music with dynamic variation anymore (i actually do, though), whats the point of doing it in the mix? when something is written with dynamic variation, true it does get squashed sometimes, but the only people who complain are engineers.

DevonB wrote:If you REALLY care about your tracks, get a real mastering engineer to do the job for you, plain and simple.

fed ex me the money then

freeztar · Post by **freeztar** » Tue Dec 28, 2004 1:45 am

mrspecial wrote: i think you mis understood me. i never said anything about squashing the f**k out of a track and squelching the dynamics, i simply said its important to get the parts of a track you want to be loud as loud as possible without it clipping. this doesn't entail setting the threshold of a limiter to -100 ... you are welcome to mix your record to -60db to prove a point if you want, but somewhere along the line someone is going to pop a limiter on it and set the output to -60db....
people always bitch about this, but who cares, really? since hardly no one is writing music with dynamic variation anymore (i actually do, though), whats the point of doing it in the mix? when something is written with dynamic variation, true it does get squashed sometimes, but the only people who complain are engineers.

You're kidding, right?

Who cares?
Lots of people. Most of them are musicians and not commercial engineers. I care.

Imagine hearing Beethoven's 9th compresssed to all hell. You kinda lose something there.

For modern pop, sure, fine, it has its place. But for ANY music that needs dynamics, it needs little to no compression/volume enhancement. Pop trios that are going to be heard by the masses, compress it to shit. High quality music with dynamic changes, leave it be!

Lunch Money · Post by **Lunch Money** » Tue Dec 28, 2004 2:16 am

I definitely care. I couldn't figure out why I hated listening to Audioslave, when I liked all the songs, the musicianship, and the vibe of the CD. Then I happened to see it on a list of "overcompressed discs" and it explained it all.

Even if you don't notice it at first, your mind and ears will get very tired and bored of over-compressed music.

Greg

mrspecial · Post by **mrspecial** » Tue Dec 28, 2004 3:05 am

Lunch Money wrote:Then I happened to see it on a list of "overcompressed discs" and it explained it all.

id like to see that, it sounds interesting. where did you find it?

anyway, im not really advocating the squashing of all music, don't unleash itchy trigger fingers when i mention throwing a limiter on a track. i am not talking about the complete desecration of dynamics, i am talking about correct limiting......you folks don't seem to follow me here, there is a line between utter squash and limiting, im not arguing the point of doing it too much. i can hear that line, i don't step over it. some of us are not so gifted though

either way, i think the trend boils down to money. if i turn in a remix with a lot of limiting so its loud as hell, they think they sound more "pro" and glady pay me what i charge. if i were to turn in something that wasn't compressed very much, it wouldn't sound as loud, and to them more like a demo, and they would say "hey, this guy is doing this shit in his bedroom, i don't want to pay him anymore"

so i use my brickwall limiter and save up for that new mic or whatever

Lunch Money · Post by **Lunch Money** » Tue Dec 28, 2004 3:16 am

I don't have the link; it was posted either here or at CM/FM forum about 2 months ago or more. I'll see if I can find it for you, though, since I know more or less what I'm googling for.

Greg

Lunch Money · Post by **Lunch Money** » Tue Dec 28, 2004 3:21 am

Couldn't find it. The closest I got was this article at prorec. But it's not the big list I was referring to.

EDIT: I found it, but it looks like the webpage no longer exists, and has been replaced by a generic search placeholder page. It WAS loudnessrace.net.

Poo, it was quite interesting, too, although obviously not interesting enough for me to even have bookmarked it. You can always try the waybackmachine or whatever it's called, I guess!

Do I need to "Master" my CD?